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Havelis or Nijseva?

Topic: http://www.pushtikul.com/link.asp?TOPIC_ID=1420
Date: 21 October 2014

Topic author: shreekant22
Subject: Havelis or Nijseva?
Posted on: 15 July 2005 14:39:53
Message:

If one were to observe the general trend of our Pushtimargiya society, nowadays, there seems to be a great surge in the no.of havelis coming up, not only in India, but all over the world. No doubt most of them are being established at the initiative of Vaishnavs. The question is, As Vaishnavs should we opt for establishing Havelies or do SEVA at home ? Are we shying away from accepting the responcibality of doing SEVA ?? Do we build Havelis as a easy way out ???


Reply author: Jigna
Date: 15 July 2005 15:43:46
Message:

Jai Shree Krishna,

In the recent times one see the the springing up of HAvelis. The reason behing this is of course the fast paced life style which people have adopted. So HAvelis are the easy solution as the Seva PRachaar is taken care of by the HAveli care takers. In one way I do think one is shying away frm the responsibility of Nij Seva and also one thinks tht seva ma chok Bhol thae se so better to have HAvelis instead. Regds Jigna


Reply author: gopal
Date: 15 July 2005 17:26:39
Message:

Jai Jai ShriGokulesh,

There is no doubt that Pushtimarg of ShriMahaprabhuji was fully free from haveli's and only the initiative was of ShriGruh Seva only. Moreover, Jignaji, haveli's is not the easy solution of seva prachaar, as it doesnot teach jeevs to do seva. Moreover seva at haveli's is not allowed to every jeev, comming for darshana, but only part sevas to get satisfied.


Reply author: shreekant22
Date: 15 July 2005 17:57:05
Message:

Jai Shree Krishna As rightly said, at Havelis only Vittaja seva is possible, Tanuja seva is not possible, and if at all possible only to a limited extent.

But the very concept of Pushtimarg lies in SEVA of Shree Thakorji. Now, on one end we build havelis and incorporate the seva pranali etc, but actually do not participate in the actual seva at all. What is worse we supervise through committees etc. Shree Thakorjis seva done by others. We become supervisers of Prabhus seva, instead of actually doing it.

Now the reason for not taking up Nijseva as said is changing lifestyles, fear of doing things wrongly or simply the problem of continuity. But then all this, if looked at from the point of view of Seva done with the bhaav of Gopijan seem meaningless, for Prabhu has not different lifestyle, we through brahamasamband have already handed over everything to him. Regarding fear, we are not following vedic rituals, but are performing seva as Gopis, so then only bhaav matters, and continuity of seva in the family is a matter of choice, not an act of compulsion.

Well the point is is it right to shrug from the responcibality of doing Nijseva and seek solace in building havelis and being a mere witness to the devine process of SEVA ?


Reply author: manish1
Date: 16 July 2005 04:33:46
Message:

Jai Shri Krishna,

Shreekant bhai, interesting topic, can be said both ways glass half full or half empty :)

For us to stay in touch with other vaishnavs we do need some common place where they can have satsang, classes and also perhaps learn about our marg. Yes ideally that place can be a Vaishnavs house, but due to logistics reason that might not always be possible.

also as in Mumbai, there is Shree Vallabh Sukhdham in Kandivali, which is not a haveli, but where they just have a library and facility to have regular satsangs and pravachans to be given by Vallabhkul balaks. so that saves the purpose as well.

someone once mentioned that Bethakhji are schools of pushtimarg, so true, but not everyone might have access to that school so an Haveli or like Shree Vallabh Sukhdham server as an alternative.

but having said that it is not a replacement for home seva and that is the main principle of Pushtimarg.

============ No doubt most of them are being established at the initiative of Vaishnavs.

==============

but they might even be with blessings of Vallabhkul.

just a few thoughts, pardon me if i have said something wrong.

Jai Shri Krishna


Reply author: sudhir
Date: 16 July 2005 06:54:46
Message:

Jay Shree Kishna, In principle I agree with Shreekant bhai as well as Gokulesh Parivar that we should follow Shree Mahaprabhuji's instructions to perform Grah Seva.However it seems highly unlikely that many can follow such a divine instruction without input, influence or even right kind of company. Haveli or Vallabh Centers along with satsang will influence one to take a right path and genrate more love towards Krishna. Unless there is a feeling and love developed towards Krishna, or for that matter anyone,you can not truely serve Him or that person.Truely speaking,to-day's society and surrounding inside or outside of the house do everything exept encourage love towards Krishna. Most of all you must be showered with Krishna's Kripa (grace)to really longe to serve Him. We can not ignore pious places like temples altogather. Shree Vallabh vision and instructions are absolute truth,but do we (To-day's Vaishnavs)even deserve such a previlage when we can not follow instructions given in Sidhant Rahasya. If anything Temples will help as long as Shree Mahaprabhuji's principles are promoted authentically. Jay Shree Krishna Sudhir

Edited by - sudhir on July 16 2005 10:06:09


Reply author: shreekant22
Date: 16 July 2005 13:44:22
Message:

Jai Shree Krishna

Good responces Manish and Sudhir bhai.

I sincerely hope all members voice their opinion on this topic. There are many learned vaishnavs who can truely enlighten us on the same. Furhter, this is a topic that touches all of us, and each of us have our own justified stand towards the same. Presenting our view points will most certainly help all of us understand the marg and its siddhants better.

Let me also add that the purpsoe of psoting this topic is only to have Vaad and not vivaad. Only for better understanding and not to argue.

Well, Sudhir bhai, you have touched a very important issue, as rightly mentioned today our havelis have become temples, devalays. In such a case, how are they different from any other temple, accept for the Asht samay seva, performed by the mukhyajis. The very fact that we have started to develop amibiguity between Temples and havelis, highlights the danger level we have reached in truely understanding our Marg. And more importantly, the younger generation most often relates a Pushti haveli and other devalays to be similar, if not the same, and thus begins the mixed journey of devotion, were in pushti bhakthi loses its focus and worship of all types and kind start.

On the other hand, Nijseva leads to personal inquisitiveness, which most often unfolds the devine pushti experience, and thus ensures that the seeds of the bhakthi marg are sown in Jeev.

But however, the fact remains that more and more vaishanvs today opt a Mandir oriented seva, than Nijseva. The question to be addressed is why so ?


Reply author: ShyamS
Date: 17 July 2005 22:06:28
Message:

Jai Shree Krishna

In my humble opinion. You can have a Haveli and also perform Seva at home.

As stated earlier, we do need a center point for Vaishanavs to visit for satsang.

Thakurji residing in a Haveli is a Sarvo Uddhar swarup. Where by all jivas are able to have darshan. Correct me if I am wrong. If so, then there is a need for a Haveli.

Where as in graha seva we can limit the people who have Thakurji's Darshan. Our own bhav gets enriched. Performing graha seva takes a lot of time and effort. And possibly conflict if other family members do not support us.

To touch on something that was said earlier. To prevent a Haveli from being a devalay/temple Goswami Balaks and Betijis should given the opportunity to overlook and be throughly involved in its running and ensure that seva is performed as per the principles.

There isn't much point in building a Haveli if it will not be looked after by Goswamis. Balaks & Betijis are qualified and should be responsible for its welfare and not the people who decide in a committe (unless they perform seva on their own and have a firm understanding). One question we have to ask. In the UK we are fortunate that Goswami Balaks reside permanently. Should we not go to them to learn from them? Make their place the center point?

I am sorry if I have offended anyone.

Edited by - ShyamS on July 17 2005 22:08:00


Reply author: shreekant22
Date: 18 July 2005 12:19:29
Message:

Jai Shree Krishna

Shyam bhai thankyoo so much for expressing your views.

In Pushtimarg, to the best of my understanding, there is only one Sarvodharak swaroop, that is of Shree Govardhannathji, presently at Nathadawara. All other swaroopas are Nijswaroopas only, either belonging to Vaishnavs or Gobalaks. The choice of allowing darshan is left to the respective vaishnav or Gobalak.

It is in fact the random appearance of Havelis at various places, (though being under the advice of various Gobalaks, the day to day seva is performed by Mukhiajis only.) that as lead to the mispaced belief that the swaroops in havelis are all sarvodharak swaroopas.

Well regarding a meeting place, yes, community halls for Satsang are most welcome, but certainly such a need does not necessarily mean construction of havelis, does it ?


Reply author: pushtidas
Date: 18 July 2005 13:41:28
Message:

Jai Shree Krishna

A very interesting reading. In Haveli we have "vaibhava" (Luxury) in Nidhi Seva. There are substances of difference in Vaibhava and seva styles in both Haveli and Graha Seva.

We see in the olden days that many "Niskinchan" (Financially not so strong) vaishnavs cannot do that sort of Vaibhava and used to visit Haveli and do the darshan of Nidhi Swaroop full of Vaibhava. They then in return depict such vaibhava into their Mansik (mental state) with Graha Seva. This way they used to acquire solace in the seva.


Reply author: shreekant22
Date: 18 July 2005 15:38:44
Message:

Jai Shree Krishna

Well truely agreed. And definetly there is a difference in styles in seva at Haveli and Gruha seva.

Pushtidasji, as pointed out by you to do mansi of Vaibhav in Gruha seva, at first requires to have Gruha seva in ones own home. But today Gurha sevas is not an encouraging trend among Vaishnavs, were as Havelis are becoming a growing feature. Mind you these are havelis were No Gobalak is biraajman, but being run by Trust formed by Vaishnavs. The fact remains, that we Vaishnavs are opting for Havelis as an alternative to Gruha seva. Is such an option available and for the sake of Vaibhav, can we delegate the option Gruha seva ????


Reply author: manish1
Date: 18 July 2005 16:11:01
Message:

Jai Shri Krishna,

Let havelis and satsang halls be the starting point into learning about Pushtimarg and not the final goal. so these places will encourage vaishnavs to learn about pushtimarg and help them apply the teachings in practice.

so final goal can be encouraged to be Gruha seva. why the change, which is being asked by Shreekanh bhai.

==========================

But however, the fact remains that more and more vaishanvs today opt a Mandir oriented seva, than Nijseva. The question to be addressed is why so ?

=========================

Shreekant bhai, please advise us why you think this is happening? do you think that is it only because people are taking this as an escape route or an easy way out??


Reply author: pushtidas
Date: 18 July 2005 23:29:36
Message:

Jai Shree Krishna

I think the point was to enhance the reason why vaishnavs were visiting Haveli in olden times. There were many reasons why we go to Haveli Shrikantbhaiji.

As far as Graha seva was concerned, it was a norm in olden days and my comment was only relevant to those olden days.

In London we still have many vaishnavs who indulge in Graha seva and they also visit Haveli. We have not adopted the new fashion of not doing graha seva and only visit Haveli. But then who knows of future.


Reply author: shreekant22
Date: 19 July 2005 12:08:22
Message:

Jai Shree Krishna

Pushtidasji, aap Vaishnavs in London, Uk, and else were doing Gruha seva a standing examples of Vaishnavta. It is indeed heartening that inspite of the various odds, living in a absolutely different social ambience, the dhrudta of aapshree Vasihnavs is truely praiseworthy, Vandaniya I should say.

Well, Manish bhai, the very idea of posting this topic is to understand and realise were do we stand today as Vasishnavs ? Are we on the right track or are we taking a diversion, from were to return may be too late.

Let us indulge in this self analysis and judge ourselves, more than individuals, a community as a whole. Today we seem to be standing at the croos roads of innumerable Havelis and slowly inching (hopefully not) towards numerable Gruha sevas.

I too would like to know are we shrugging our responcibality with respect to Gruha seva ????

Hope more Vaishnavs will present there opinions too.


Reply author: pushtidas
Date: 19 July 2005 13:39:02
Message:

Jai Shree Krishna

This is my understanding that Haveli did not exist when Pushtimarg was initiated by our divine Shree Vallabh and aapshree always said:

Krushna seva sada kariya

So what Shreekantbhaiji is relaying is, although we have Haveli and all other new Haveli's are croping up, are we really not swaying our ways set by Shree Vallabh and gradually moving away from Graha Seva?

In Pushtimarga our Vaishnav kartaviya is Krushna seva sada kariya and that means it is every vaishnavs duty to follow the humble graha seva. Sometimes we have seen Vallabh has decided the norm of seva (seva na prakar) for different sevak with different seva, for instance, gau-seva.

So I think we are moving from actual teachings and graha seva. Is that right? Are we really doing the right thing? Not doing graha seva and only visiting Haveli only, is this not a mariyada type seva?

Please note above is personal opiniate, and I also say that we should do graha seva and visit Haveli, no harm in that proto system.


Reply author: chiragdoshi
Date: 19 July 2005 14:00:43
Message:

Jai Shree Krishna,

Very well said by Shri pushtidas, That we should of course visit haveli for the darshan & to learn how to do seva of Shree Thakorji at home. We can learn that by doing satsang with the Bhagvadi's & telling our doubts to our Shree Vallabh. (If Shree Vallabh is birajman). By taking darshan in haveli we can learn what Vastra, Shringars, Etc.....should we offer to Shree Thakorji. Yes we have Seva Prakar pustak at our home to learn, but there is lot's of difference in read & learn and look & learn. So, I think so by going to haveli is not skipping our Gruh seva or the Nij seva of Shree Thakorji.

Jai Shree Krishna.


Reply author: shreekant22
Date: 20 July 2005 13:36:04
Message:

Jai Shree Krishna

Well, if one is going to haveli to learn and understand seva and incorporate the same in Gruh seva, then its ok. But the question we are pondering over is not such a situation, here hte situation is were there no gruha seva, and not just visiting havelis, but even generating new ones, for ones convenience, so that Gruha seva may be avoided.

Is this correct ?

As rightly said by Pushtidasji, Is this not a maryada type seva ? A Synonym to visiting other devalays ??

These are the few basic questions that arise form the discussion so far, which each and every Vaishnav should answer (if not at the forum to himself) ?

1.As per Pushitmarg what is SEVA ? Why we as Pushtimargiya Vaishnav should do seva ? What kind of seva ?

2.Did Shree Vallabh, prescribe to, recommend Havelis?

3.While the origin of Havelis as homes of Shree Vallabh balak, and their multilocations is understood, the present day plethora of Havelis, which are not necessarily homes of the Vallabhkul, nor have historic significance but have their origin related to a group of vaishnavs desire for the same, and hence established. Are such havelis a welcome trend ? Arent we shying away from Nijseva??

3. While even the very havelis when being formed at new locations, say a new counrty, a new society, etc, definetly are justified due to their role in ensuring a knowledge base for Vaishnavs of the town/area/city country. To establish such havelis at complexes, at similar locations purely for personal benifits, are they acceptable?

4.What is the need of seva, and if no nijseva, then are we indulging in Pushtibhakthi at all ?


Reply author: jatin
Date: 21 July 2005 11:16:19
Message:

Good post Shreekantbhai...

Lot of Discussion...

May be am repating many of the things....

As per my opinion Haveli Should be there....i will give my example only i started going in to haveli when i was in 10th stanadard, i joined pathshala over there and learnt about pushtimarg otherwise i would have not before that sometime i used to go for darshan but now days almost daily am going at haveli there we get the seva also (All three seva )sometime upto limited extent special in tanuja seva but am happy with that much of seva also.....it's not wrong if more havelis are getting built up only condition is that it has to be under Goswami Balaks it should not be purely belonging to Vaishnavs

In Pushtimarg Thakorji Seva is compulsory and we have to it.

Many of the manoraths cannot be done at Gruh it can be done only in haveli with the agya of Goswami Balaks

Am not objecting Haveli Seva or Gruh seva as per my opinion both has to be done .....but first prefrece should be Gruh Seva but we should skip haveli as well.....

Correct if i am wrong


Reply author: sudhir
Date: 21 July 2005 11:21:28
Message:

Jay Shree Krishna In our life time, say last 60 to 70 years,has anyone thought or imagined a place without any haveli ? The answer is no.Inspite of this fact, there are vaishnavs who have successfully carried out Gruh Seva and have become very dear to Krishna. That is because that vaishnav was showered upon by lots of grace from Shree Vallabh,in turn from Shree Krishna. That means Havelis have not hurt any one but if anything Havelis have helped many. Because the bright side is that Vaishnavs going to Haveli start thought process. They may become lucky to get right sung (company),say satsang, and may get inspired to follow Gruh Seva. If he is not worthy of Shree Vallabh grace due to any reason and does not do Gruh Seva, he will at least engage in darshan of Shree Krishna and come closer to Him, hopefully by purifying himself.It is a win-win situation for all. As I emphasised in my earlier posting,Shree Vallabh principles and teching should be promoted seriously and effectively so the value, importance and ultimately the need are realised so much so that one is bound to inspire to do Gruh Seva. Besides there are various phases of Gruh Seva. This is a matter of Kripa or Pushti only that to what extent vaishnav will carry out the Gruh Seva. Under these days and age I do not know how can we even undo or reverse the reality of Havelis and Temples around us. Only thing we can do is to use to our advantage to understand the truth.

Edited by - sudhir on July 21 2005 11:23:21


Reply author: pushtidas
Date: 21 July 2005 13:22:46
Message:

Jai Shree Krishna

Well said Shreekantji, we have so many dwidha (problems) in understanding, practicing and then imbibing in the Path Of Grace.

Pushtimarg means Path Of Grace. That means if Shree Vallabh bestow Grace upon us then we will be initiated in Pushti seva. We know that, all five fingers in the hand is not of the same size, so is the Pushti-Jiva (vaishnavs) characters and bhava, hence, we have Mariyada Pravahi Jiva, Pushti Jiva, Purna Pushti Jiva, Pushta Pushti Jiva, etc...etc...etc..

Why such division? Well all Jiva is not bestowed with Graha Seva, although the fundaments Of Pushtimarg is Graha Seva; we see examples of various seva bestowed on dufferent sevak by Shree Vallabh and Shree Vithalnathji.

Now after saying the above, if everyone go to Haveli and do not do Graha Seva, then, I am afraid there will be a situation whereupon Haveli will be conjusted and not every soul will be able to get that seva which he is wishing. Secondly, not everone, especially vaishnavs who live in villages or far away from Haveli, be able to travel everyday to Haveli, hence to their benefit, Vallabh has deviced the Graha Seva as well.

One most important point is that Shree Vallbah was the First Swaroop who had cleared that conotation of discrimination with women in our Hindu relegion. In Vaidik rituals women folks were not allowed to perform without men (husband) but in Pushtimarga we have women doing seva without any restrictions.

A woman when become widow, she is still carrying on Graha Seva but, unfortunately, she is not allowed into Haveli to do certain Manorath, neither Vahuji will entertain her in Janana Graha.

All this stipulates that although Havelis are nowadays, springing up all over the world like pop-corns, we must as well insist the first sidhant of Shree Vallabh to do Graha Seva. Both Haveli and Graha Seva must have a prominant place in Pushtimarg and in Vaishnavs daily chores.

All above is my opinion.


Reply author: shreekant22
Date: 21 July 2005 17:58:22
Message:

Jai Shree Krishna

Thankyou for your kind words Pushtidasji.

Sudhir bhai, Jatin bhai, Very good view points and very thought leading to. Let me clarify that the query at no point is against havelis. The purose of raising this topic is to logivally understand the emergence of innumerable havelis in recent history.

Let us take this step by step.....

Shree Vallabhs era: The stress by Mahaprabhuji was only in Gruha seva and naam seva. While the socio-cultural situation on one hande necessitated such a practice, as rightly pointed out by Pushtidasji, it also led to many social reforms in the Hindu religious society. Apart from this, from what we can understand reading the 84 vaishnav varthas is that Acharyacharan only preached Gruha seva, and if not then naam seva. To no one Aapshree has said do phool seva at so and so house or have Shree Thakorjis darshan daily at this vaishnavs house. Further inspite of having manywea lthy vaishnavs as sevaks, to no one has Shree Vallabh ever expressed the desire to have temple. On the contrary, even Shree Govardhandharans abode was finally accpeted with Shikhars as Thakorjis itcha, and not the personal wish of Shree Vallabhacharya.

Shree Gusainjis era: After moving away from Adel, there came into existance the large mansion homes of Shree Vitthalnathji, even then only know as Ghar only, the msot famous one being the Satghara of Mathura. With the influence of Rajasthans culture, did the Havelis emerge, a distinct name given to Palatial homes, and hence used as refrence to Shree Gusainji and the seven balaks homes. Mind you no separate independent havelis existed even now. The next generation of Saat Gaadhis: With the Sanctification of the seven Gaadhis, the various peeths were formed, and from then on the individual Peeths established themselves and willfully started propogating the marg, to the best of thier abilities.

Then on... The socio-political scenerio since then saw many a migrations, and hence with the movement of gobalaks to various locations all over the nation, and later across the seas saw the emergence of many havelis.

However, these Havelis slowly emerged independently more out of Vaishnavs desire, initially though the need was due to alien ambience, lack of motivation etc. But as we see today they are emerging more thanks to the wims and fancies of us Vaishnavs.

The question is Does a Vaishnav have the right to establish a Haveli ?

And why Haveli? Why not Nijseva ?

I repeat my initial query again.... Are we shying away from accepting the responcibality of Nijseva, and adopting the Haveli route for our convenience ? Is going to Haveli and doing some kind of seva at our wims and fancies, seva at all. 'chalo bhai aaje Suday che, Mandir jayi aaviye', Arre, aaje to Agyaras che, chalo mandir ma mala kari aviye', is this what is SEVA, being done as per our wish, our free time ? Let us for a moment compare this with the siddhant of Pushitmarg, do they match? Do they Co-relate ?

Do our actions justify even the simple guideline of SEVA.... The Sukh of Pratyaksh biraajmaan our Poornapurushottam prabhu ????

Edited by - shreekant22 on July 21 2005 18:01:01


Reply author: gopal
Date: 22 July 2005 11:07:21
Message:

Jai Jai ShriGokulesh,

Today is Asadhi 1st Vad Paksha (Shravan Krishna-Vraj months). Today starts the utsava of Hindola. My question is regards to this only. When ShriGusaiji introduced the utsav prakaar in pushtimarg., and till today in the prachin gurudwar's the 1st 15 days of hindolas, the Hindolas r simple without any sajavat.

But now a days the fashion of private havelis' has grown up where right from the 1st day the hinolas r been decored in chandi na hindola, kasumbi na hindola, etc. If we r following pushtimarg of shrimahaprabhuji-shrigusaiji, how much rituals we follow what these 2 mahanubhav Avtaars explained? If we r not following their aagyna then these haveli's r just carring personal activities, just to attract mass and what further to say........................... is understoodable.


Reply author: shreekant22
Date: 22 July 2005 12:02:21
Message:

Jai Shree Krishna

Gopal bhai, your concern for the atitude of Havelis is a welcome thought. However, the sajavat of Hindolas has not restriction, and as per the individual havelis capabality doing various types of Hindolas is most welcome, as this only increases the Sukh of Shree Thakorji. However, if it is done as a commercial venture, were on Prabhus sukh is not the criteria, but it is being done more to attract visitors, then it is a very shamefull act.


Reply author: jatin
Date: 22 July 2005 12:55:58
Message:

You are absouletly right shreekantbhai and we are not at all authorise to comment the private haveli...whereever the new haveli is build is for the vaishnav only we cant say this as fashion of building up haveli like recently many of the place so many shopping mall came up for the buissness purpose ...but haveli is not for the buissness purpose it is for the vaishnav

correct me if am wrong


Reply author: gopal
Date: 22 July 2005 19:25:02
Message:

Jai Jai ShriGokulesh,

Nothing is fashion, if it is continued for a long time, which then becomes the tradition.


Reply author: snehal gandhi
Date: 22 July 2005 20:44:55
Message:

Jai Shree Krushna, It is true that today many havelis are coming up. But, this never stops u from doing gruh seva. From morning till evening u can do seva of Shree Thakorji birajmann on u and evening u can go to haveli for darshan of Shree thakorji and Shree Vallabh.

Basically, we should understand what is bhav behind haveli. Haveli is with bhav of Nandalay and gruh seva is with bhav of Nikunj.Even after serving Shree Thakorji at Nikunj, Gopies were not able to take the virah of Shree Thakorji and use to run at Nandalay for Darshan of their Preetam.

I totally agree to the fact that we should not escape gruh seva, because after taking brahmasambandh we have dedicated ourselves to seva of Shree Thakorji. Pushti shrusti is for nij seva of Shree Thakorji. But, do every jeev has adhikaar of swaroop Seva?

Even during era of Shree Vallabh, aapshree didnt give swaroop seva to all vaishnavs but gave them naam seva or any other seva according to their adhikaar. What will u call kirtan seva of Asht sakhas? Gruh seva or Seva of Shree Govardhannathji haveli. What will u call seva did by Shree Jalotaji of Dahi?


Reply author: snehal gandhi
Date: 22 July 2005 20:52:38
Message:

Jai Shree Krushna, Atleast by way of haveli vaishnavs will assemble at a place and will take some bhagwad naam. Otherwise today in Mumbai I see vaishnav deviating from basic principles of Pushtimarg and even after taking brahmasambandh shying away from wearing kanthi.

In no ways we should skip or escape from doing gruh seva but if even a group of vaishnavs open a haveli they are not doing anything wrong and not stopping u from doing gruh seva. A jeev not doing gruh seva will atleat understand something about pushtimarg through darshan atleat he will do naman to the swaroop and we all know that NAMYA TE PRABHU NE GAMYA

I have seen people who were not having any bhav in pushtimarg but after coming to haveli they got bhav and are now doing gruh seva.


Reply author: shreekant22
Date: 26 July 2005 12:33:16
Message:

Jai Shree Krishna

Snehal bhai, Very good views indeed. However, let me clarify, that the topic is not against Havelis at all. The very purpose of this query is as Vaishnavs are we shying away from Gruh seva ?

Well regarding the Ashtasakhas, may I clarify that the Ashtsakhas too did gruha seva. A visit, eventoday to Shree Kumbhandasjis House at Jamnavata village near parasoli will prove this. Even today the sevya swaroop of Shree Girirajji is biraajmaan there.

Shree Ramdasji, the very first Vaishnav to do seva of Shree Govardhandharan too had his on evya swaroopa, and for many years did seva of Shree Mukundraiji.

We see historically, scripturally, siddhant wise, and in the pramans of Shree Acharyacharan, that Nijseva in the form of Swaroop seva or Naam seva alone have been advised and advocated. Then how can Vaishnavs establish havelis ?


Reply author: anoopjp
Date: 26 July 2005 13:12:09
Message:

Dear Vaishnavs

Jai Shree Krishna

Pushtimarg starts from home and not havelis, first siddhant of pushtimarg is to do seva of thakorji in whatever way possible.

If one is not able to do seva for some reason then he can visit the haveli and have darshan of thakorji. At least the haveli provides a place for person to focus his religion and belief.

In Bahrain until few years back only one pushtimargiya Haveli existed but now all the sampradays have opened up their temples. But still this does not mean that people have stopped coming to the main haveli. Lots of people come from all types of margs and have darshan of thakorji.

Thus havelis are not a bad thing but us vaishnavs need to understand that priority should be given to doing the seva of our own thakorji at home rather than going to Havelis and doing seva.

Anoop


Reply author: pushtidas
Date: 26 July 2005 13:37:42
Message:

Jai Shree Krishna

I think as Pushtimargiya Vaishnav our first duty is towards Graha Seva. Havelis are really is the home of our Vallabh Parivaar.

In Shree Gusainji's era,although Aapshree was doing seva of Shree Nathji, He did seperate seva of Navnit Preeyaji's seva in Gokul. In Gokul Aapshree svayam (Himself) did seva of Navnit Preyaji, no bhitariya or Mukhiyaji. This was because Gokul was his Resident (Haveli) and he prefered to keep it that way, but after Shree Gusainji did lila then the swaroop was transfered to Shree Nathji and stayed there.

So history does show that Graha seva is our first duty, and Haveli is a bonus to gain the darshan of our Guruji's seviya swaroop.

I think this day and age, we are so much engrossed in our daily viyavrati that we are definately shying away from Graha Seva. Although various Vallabh Balak has relaxed the way we do Graha Seva, but this has not enticed many vaishnav to indulge in seva.

I agree with Anoopji, the Graha Seva is priority and should be the first item in our Pushti duty.

Do Graha Seva and whenever one gets chance then do visit Haveli. If we give priority to Haveli then the whole structure of Pushtimarg's first sidhant will collapse.


Reply author: shreekant22
Date: 27 July 2005 12:28:35
Message:

Jai Shree Krishna

Very well said Anoopji, great saar Pushtidasji.

Yes, Pushtimarg starts from home and not havelis and If we give priority to Haveli then the whole structure of Pushtimarg's first sidhant will collapse.

This indeed is the most important fact that all of us Vaishnavs ought to realise.

CHETAST PRAVANAM SEVA This should be the prerogative of all Vaishnavs.

Inspite of allowances made by the benovalent Vallabhkul, and various liberties offered, it is a sad scenario that we Vaishnavs instead of eagerly accepting Shree Thakorjis seva, have resorted to Devalay type of Haveli establishing syndrome, with overlays of education of the Marg, atleast one can do darshan etc. while the truth is that we are shying away from accepting the responcibality of NIJSEVA.

During the time of Shree Vallabh and Shree Gusainji and Saat Balaks, Mala and Kanthi were a must among all Vaishnavs, slowly as a part of adaptation to the socio-cultural changes, Tilak vanished from public palces, and remained within ones homes, now we see that hardly a few percentage adorn it at all, leave alone in public, even with in their own homes. Nijseva which is/was a Blessing and an adored fact, has in todays secenario become a stumbling block, were in Alliances of Bridegroom are rejected because one has seva in their home. And many of us justify themselves by saying that we offer whatever seva possible at Haveli.

But is this our Siddhant ? Is this wimsikal seva syndrome the preaching of Acharyacharan ?

Have we forgtton that in reply to Chaitanyas observation that a jeev will attain realisation of Bhagwan even if he were to utter his name onlu for a few tiems in his life time, Shree Vallabh had said that if jeev stops doing smaran of Shree Thakorji even for a fraction of a second, then the Kalikaal can adversly effect him.

The foremsot kartavya of us Vaishnavs is Seva, as naam smaran and swaroop seva, this one ought to do to realise and effectively follow Pushitmarg. These two are the two oars of the Pushtiroopi naav (boat). Is it possible to simply sit in the boat and expect to reach the other side of the river without these two oars ? That is a decision we have to take ?

My apologies if any of the observations have hurt Vaishnavs in anyway.

Edited by - shreekant22 on July 27 2005 12:35:13


Reply author: gopal
Date: 27 July 2005 15:01:51
Message:

Jai Jai ShriGokulesh,

Well Said vaishnavas, good satsang going on, as undertanding what shrimahaprabhuji had given aagyna to us. Moreover, in context to this quote, i will again repeat the old quote Chaturthkumar ShriGokulnathji Maharajshri gives aagyna as follows:-

"Swamargiyabhagwad Bhajanam Tu Arhesthityabhyave Na Sambhavatiti Purvam Gruhstithimevashu "Gruhe Sthityaveti" Bhagwat Bhajan Ananukule Gruhe Sthitva Swadharmava Krushnam Bhajet ..."

Means ::----->Swamargiya Bhagwat bhajan is not possible without staying in own house. First to stay in house so said Stay at home. To make our house anukul for Shrikrishna's bhajan......


Reply author: shreekant22
Date: 07 April 2006 14:26:49
Message:

Jai Shree Krishna

Many incidents in the recent paast have been very painful expereinces. While on one hand Havelis get established, whay is more painful is the deplition and wrongful notion towards Gruhseva. More so, that one who is trying to establsih swaroop at his/her whom is looked at in a very weared manner. I humbly present my unbearable taap in the form of a poem below....

Dagar Dagar pe Mandir bhaye,   Gruh seva ko bhayo tyaag.

Vittaja ko bhaar badyo,   Tanuja na laagi haath.

Seva aaj Mukhiya kare,   Vaishnav Jode haath.

Apne ghar Nij anand kare,   Vaishnav asamarpit khaat.

Jaise Jaise Kalyug bade,   Aur bade Vaibhav Jaat.

Hum tum kaise moodh bhaye,  Andheki kaise kini Shree Vallabh baat.

Abh to ho Jagrut utho,   Karo Nijseva ko badaav.

Shree Vallabh Vallabh har disha,  Vallabhkul karenge hanro bachaav

Diksha Bramhasamband ki Maango,  Maango daan seva ko Maango.

Shreekant ke Thakur param krupaal, Aaj hoon Nij jeev pe barsayenge apno lagaav.


Reply author: friendmonu
Date: 07 April 2006 17:29:29
Message:

Jsk
A very touching n meaningful poem , describing the present state.


Jsk n Regards,
Monica.


Reply author: jigershah
Date: 07 April 2006 18:22:20
Message:

jsk 

sarvodharak swaroop at nath dwara is for all vaishnavs  and neej seva swaroop is bhaktodharak  which will lead the soul to its final destination

seva is essential part of life  and pushti margs if described in one word is seva

seva krutir gurur agya badhanam waa hari echaya

sevayam va  katham va yasyashakti  dharada bhavet

krishna seva sada karya mansi sa para mata

mansi seva cannot be done it starts happening by it self when pushit soul reaches the faal dasha

bedsides that our duty is to perform tanuja vittja seva  till last breath

lord jagannath also says  eako karya tasya  seva

those in 84/252 performed mansi seva were established in faal dasha by grace of shri prabhu charan

seva is priority katha satsang is secondary

always perfrom every pushti related  karya ans seva by the permission of your guruji or always seek the opinion of the guruji when in doubt

kind regs jiger shah jsk


Reply author: purvi
Date: 07 April 2006 20:51:12
Message:

jay jay shri gokulesh.

beautiful poem shreekant bhai. it contains the essence of everything.

tanuvittaja is one word means doing seva with ones tan(deh) and money.

one can do seva with mann, vaani and deh only at home.

jay jay shri gokulesh.


Reply author: hit
Date: 07 April 2006 22:30:49
Message:

Dandvat pranam,

Humara saubhagya haiki Aapke vachanamrutka pan karneko mila, here some querries.....

1.GRUHE STHITVA SWADHARMATAH- pl. explain our swadharma.
2.SWEEYAAN BHAKTAAN PRADARSHAYET"...that means show the vaishnavs that how we should serve our PUSHTI PURSHOTTAM.- to show in general or personaly?
3.
(it doesnt matter if sewa is performed on a small or big scale),then their guilty concious should bite them!- then question is for asamarpit.


Reply author: hit
Date: 08 April 2006 07:36:40
Message:

Dandvat pranam,
nice explanation, sewa- big or small scale means?


Reply author: jigershah
Date: 08 April 2006 09:35:24
Message:

dandvaat pranam acharya shri

we are blessed by your grace

and your willingness and efforts to guide us all through this discussion

please dear prabhu  forgive us for the shram caused to your holiness

due to our ignorance

bless me

dasa jiger conveys dandvaat pranam


Reply author: hit
Date: 08 April 2006 10:31:43
Message:

Jsk Jigarbhai,

hamare guruji hamse kahete hai ki hum tumhare liye shram karveko hi padhare hai....phirbhi koi bhool hui hai to mai bhi kshama magta hu. jab hum prashna hi nahi karengeto janveko kya milego? aur Pujya Bavashri querries achhese solve kar rahe hai.

Edited by - admin on 09 April 2006


Reply author: hit
Date: 08 April 2006 11:17:21
Message:

Jsk,
dusri baat, hamare Vallabhvansajoko kam mat samazo; wo samarth hai harek prashna solve karaneko. hum vaishnavnko kitne unche rakh diye!! like brahmsambandhi= bhakta= swakiya. Nirbhay kar diye sab chere.


Reply author: shreekant22
Date: 08 April 2006 14:32:48
Message:

Shree Vallabh deesh ki Jai

Sashtang dandvat to Je Je.

Please accept my humble apologies, as it seems the very posting in itself has casued ati Shram to Aapshree.

I seek permission from Aapshree and hereby clarify myself.

Before I proceed, this  calrification is to only remove the confusion and not to contradict or present another point of view other than Shree Vallabhkuls vachnamrut.

The word Havelis seem to have caused the first confusion. Well, the word was used with respect to the present day use of the very word, were in it has lost its essential incorporation in to the Marga, were in during the initial times, it represented the Home of Shree Vallabhkul. However, today the word is used to represent places/venues other than Vallbhkul homes too.

Further the very query raised is to highlight the need for Gurha seva.

As gracefully mentioned by Aapshree....

so...HAVELIS exist from more than 475 yrs,and HAVELIs are our existance,HAVELIs are the institute by itself where Vaishnavs can learn how to perform gruha sewa in their houses!

yes,but I agree that if vaishnavs are coming to haveli and even after watching & learning everything...not performing gruha sewa (it doesnt matter if sewa is performed on a small or big scale),then their guilty concious should bite them!

Today it is common knowledge to all of us that Gruha seva is a fast deminishing phenomenon. And the purpose of this topic is only to highlight the fact that the the emergence of Havelis, in what ever form, is not to repalce Gruha seva, but only to become knowledge centres.

I take this opportunity to clairfy the fact that this topic and the postings made by me here in are not to oppose the coming up of Havelis, but more importantly to stree the fact that as a Vasihanv one should seek knowledge, guidance and learn the finer nuances of the seva form them, and not to deviate from Gruha seva. Havelis are notand cannot become replecement centres to Gruha seva.

Which the very reason that while in the first line I have said....Dagar Dagar pe Mandir bhaye, in the eight line I have also said...

Shree Vallabh Vallabh har disha,  Vallabhkul karenge hanro bachaav

 again pointing to the very Havelis but this time in a different perception... that of them being the points of margdarshan saving us and guiding us in our understanding and performing of SEVA.

I humbly request Je Je to accept my apologies once again and be graceful enough to offer further clarification and do marg darshan.

In the words Mahaprabhuji,....Jeevaha swabhaav to dushta, dosha bhaavaya sarvada.

Je Je, hum to Jeev matra hai, aur doosht bhi hai, bus aaphi ki krupa se hum sahi rah pe chal sakhat hai.

Humari yah namra vinanti hai, Aap sadhaiva humpar aisi krupa varsha avashya karte rahein.

Sashtang Dandvat pranam.


Reply author: hit
Date: 08 April 2006 23:27:01
Message:

Dandvat pranam,
sach hai- chaturai taki saanchi......sewa kare ke na kare, mankram vachan inhike charankamal anusare..manse sachi bhakti hai to asamrpitko badh nahi aave.


Reply author: vivekshah
Date: 09 April 2006 01:00:36
Message:

jai shri krishna

 

I would kindly like to know what do u al mean by "GRUH SEVA"? This word is very much in discussions these days?


Reply author: jigershah
Date: 09 April 2006 09:25:25
Message:

dear hit bhia jsk

 you can call it  dinta or hints

form my point of view and as per courtesy to vallabh kul from vaishnavs and as per marga pranali

it has been costomery to appologize  for the shram to guru  when guruji  himself puts fourth the efforts

to educates moodh people  like my self  and i appologise to you as well if i have offended you in any way

please do forgive me sir as i had no such intensions

and please sir in future  do not hold your self back tell me more of your views

 

kind regs jiger shah jsk


Reply author: hit
Date: 09 April 2006 11:24:12
Message:

Sadar dandvat pranam to Shribawashri aurJsk to pyare vaishnavjan,
Aap aise mat kahiye bhai. Hamara marg kabhi vallabhkulka anadar kar hi na sake, sab balak samarth hai aur alaukik hai. Bina gurudwar hum Prabhuke pas ja hi nahi sakte. Thakorji naraz ho jai to guruji manave. Aap jo apneko moodh kahte hai to yaad kariye- surdasjike padko.. sur hokarke kaheko dhidhiyatho…!! Hum vallabhiya hai, as per Shri Bawashri swakiya hai to ye to hamara shnehka nata hai. Ye to saubhagyamadki baat hai…!! Balak ho ke bhi kitni dinta hai.hamari vani, gyan kab tak, inhike charno tak.
hum kaun hai- bhrahmsambandhi vaishnav- kartavya Krishna sewa aur smaran, kirtan, manan- na nibh sake to tirthatan. Apano smaran pakksha bhi bahut prabal hai.
rahi baat ghruh sewa ke sikhveki to rukshmanibai aur kai vaishnav kahase sikhe?ajkal hum bate karte hai sahi Krishnasewa karvewale ko fursad kaha hai?

Pushti prakash prakat karveko prakate Shri Vallabh bhutal…Shri Mahaprabhujike anewale utsavki sabko badhai!!!!

Edited by - hit on 09 April 2006 11:25:22


Reply author: shreekant22
Date: 09 April 2006 13:03:43
Message:

Shree Vallabhadeesh ki Jai.

Sashtaang Dandvat pranam to Je Je.

Aapne ne krupa kari ke hamari kshama svikari, iske liye koti dhanyavaad.

Aapshri ke krupapoorna Vachnamrut ke liye hum sadaiv aake abhaari hai.

Sada Sarvada hamara marg darshan ise tarah krupa karike karate rahe.

Sashtaang dandvat pranam.


Reply author: PG9
Date: 10 April 2006 01:57:44
Message:

A thought,

Is it logical that just because there are so many havelis coming up, people are doing less 'Gruh-Seva'

Is that the reason ? So by that reasoning, if there is some village or town where there is no haveli, all ghars should have seva.

But is it not true that we generally find that the place with no haveli has a very small no. of  vaishnavs or has no vaishnavs at all, leave alone 'Gruh-Seva'

PG


Reply author: shreekant22
Date: 10 April 2006 13:51:14
Message:

Jai Shree Krishna

The intention is not have that sought of Logic and if such an impression has been created, then my humble apologies for the same.


Reply author: jagdish
Date: 10 April 2006 21:16:17
Message:

Sadar Dandvat Pranaam Je Je,

Khoob Dhanyawaad for your guidance and vachnamruts.

Jai Shri Krishna,

Enjoying this very nice and well co-ordinated flow....

There are a few thoughts that arise and i feel that i should mention them here.... I apologise in advance for anything that may appear out of place.

Perhaps all this has been said before, and possibly in different ways, if this is the case, please excuse my ignorance.

The idea of Havelis as Institutions seems very appropriate. Especially, as "Life-Long-Learning-Academy".. where 'vaishnavs' can go to learn and continue to visit, and keep their Pushti Skills polished and keep receiving guidance from the presiding gurus there (ofcourse one could say that they need to have the motivation and enthusiasm and that this motivation and enthusiasim needs to be instilled in them and hence they need to be educated from early age - one could go further and say that this system should form part of the education system just as a generic "Religious Education", but this could be a subject matter for a different discussion.).

So, as a personal thought, i feel that the Havelis are an essential requirement for us as places to acquire 'Spiritual/Transcendental Knowledge' as well as being 'Homes' of our Gurus.

Perhaps, i am not using the right words but, simply speaking,  Vaishnavs could promote this view (rather than the view of going to a haveli to do seva as and when one feels like it and then forgetting about it when one returns home....) much more as a source of transcendental knowledge (which they  don't seem to be in this present day) just like the normal universities/colleges are being promoted as education establishments. When we go to universities/colleges, we aim to use the education we receive in our everyday lives.. and apply it in our field of work....

Surely, it should be possible to do the same with our Pushti and Seva knowledge since that is going to help us please our Pushti Purushottam Prabhu...

Please excuse if i have said anything out of place and kindly highlight to correct the same.

Best Wishes
jagdish

Edited by - jagdish on 10 April 2006 21:21:37


Reply author: manish1
Date: 11 April 2006 10:29:36
Message:

Dadvat Pranaam to Jeje,

thankyou very much for guidance and precious Vanchamruts. Also for taking Shram to answer so many queries.


Reply author: shreekant22
Date: 11 April 2006 13:34:02
Message:

Jai Shree Krishna

Yes. Jagdish bhai, the conclusions infered by you are very apt.

We as Vaishnavs, ought to be very clear in our perception of What areHavelis.

1) Havelis, are Traditionally the residential place of Shree Vallabhkul.

2) The Thakorji Biraajman in the Haveli is the Nidhi/sevya swaroop of Shree Vallabhkul.

3)A Vaishnav visits Haveli, to offer his repects to Shree Vallabhkul.

4)A Vaishnav is allowed to have darshan of the Biraajmaan Thakorji, by the Krupa of Shree Vallabhkul

5)A Vaishnav while doing the Darshan, not only offeres his obscience to the lord, but also is inspired by the Devine ambience. He learns the finer nuances of Raag-Shrungaar  too through darshan.

6)A Vaishnav also by follwoing the various behavioral patterns is exposed to the finer aspects of the Marg.

7)A Vaishnav by visiting the Haveli, gets and seeks calrification of the various doubts he/she may have either from Shree Vallabhkul himself, the Mukhiaji, or the Vaishnavs themselves.

8)A Vaishnav keeps himself abrest with the various news and views of the marg by visiting the Haveli.

9)By offering the various sevas (Tanuja seva) a Vaishnav improves his/her personal skills in those sevas, and also learns the right way of doing them.

10)By offering Vittaja seva, a Vaishnav contributes towards wellness of the Haveli itself, an important karthavya of us Vaishnavs, as the Haveli is the living place of our beloved Shree Vallabhkul and Shree thakorji. And it is our duty that such a devine place is not devoid of facilities and faculties.

11)Last but not the least, With the krupa of Shree Vallabhkul, The Haveli, also serves as a centre for a Vaishnav to fullfill his/her manoraths be it to Shree Thakorji or Shree Vallabhkul.

But to think this is the Start and the end is the mistake a Vaishnav should never make.

The param sukh of doing seva of Shree Ang,  the devine experience of Shree Thakorjis mand manda muskan after offering him shrungaar, the innumerous manoraths that one develops for Shree Thakorji, in offering Samagri, Vastra, abhushana etc. is all possible only by doing Gruhseva of our own Sevya swaroop.

The inculcation of Prema Bhakthi, the  jagrutta of bhaav, the transition of Prem to Askthi and then the wait for Vyasan can be truely and most vividly expereienced through Gruhseva. In fact, with Gruhaseva, the dhrudta catapulates manytimes faster. I am sure, all those who do Gruh seva will vouch ofr such experiences.

It is important here too remember that Gruha seva too needs to be done with absolute bhaav, to offer kriya padhi seva on a day to day basis again is no seva at all.


Reply author: dadaji
Date: 11 April 2006 22:51:44
Message:

Jai Jai Shree Gokulesh,
Very good effort Shreekantbhai and if few will understand this, then in real way the celebration of Shri Mahaprabhuji's utsav will be!!!!


Reply author: jagdish
Date: 12 April 2006 00:20:33
Message:

Jai Shri Krishna,

Shreekant Bhai Thank You  for your kind words and indeed for such a wonderful way in summarising all the main key points above. All really well placed and illustrated. I agree with dadaji's statement.

One more point that comes to mind is that it is important (if not critical) for the Vaishnavs should recognise/realise their own sevya swaroop is their personal swaroop into whom we are projecting the 'reflection' of the actual Thakorji who is actually with and within us. Who guides us day and night, etc.. I feel that we sometimes tend to forget this and in ignorance at such times, give more importance to someone else's child than our own.. Please excuse the choice of words in this context.

This also brings forward something that was said, along the lines that there are countless swaroops of Thakorjis all over, in all the universes/creation as there are His devotees.

Best Wishes
jagdish


Reply author: shreekant22
Date: 17 April 2006 20:46:23
Message:

Jai Shree Krishna

It is of utmost importance to have dhrudta in ones own sevya swaroopa. With this drudtha and ananyatha, one cannot devolop asakthi, and with out asakthi to move forward is impossible.


Reply author: pranavkg
Date: 19 April 2006 22:29:38
Message:

Jai Shri Krishna,

I have always experienced a spiritual atmosphere in Havelis and it is also free from distractions. Moreover, all special days and festivals are celebrated in a better way in Havelis giving a lot of meaning to the occassion. For example, naav na darshan is only possible in Haveli. Sevaks have lot to do in Haveli if they are devoted to seva and they can chant bhajans while doing seva. No doubt Gruha Seva is equally important to build a relationship with Lord and we should consider ourselves blessed if we can make most out of both.

Building Havelis can be considered as Landmark of Religion and best place for future generations to gain knowledge of Pushtimarg and follow them at home.

Kindly correct me, if I am wrong,

Jai Shri Krishna

 


Reply author: friendmonu
Date: 19 April 2006 23:20:54
Message:

JSK,

Thank you Shreekantbhi for sharing this topic
and clarifying the doubts raised,

JSK n Regards,

Monica.


Reply author: jigershah
Date: 20 April 2006 10:20:42
Message:

jsk

great list is described by shrikant bhai  to give a glimpse of havelies and dutieds of vaishnavs

but nothing is more important then happiness of your sevya swroop at home

any activity of vaishnav related to havelies should never be performed at the cost of nitya seva of thakurji

at home

jsk jiger shah

 


Reply author: shreekant22
Date: 20 April 2006 12:49:26
Message:

Jai Shree Krishna

It is important for us as Vaishanvs to always - sada and sarvada remember, that in Seva, Quality of seva is most important not quantity. The bhaav should always take precedence to the Pomp and show.

While we may not be able to perform the Naav manorath to our sevya swaroopa, it is important to be inspired from the Haveli darshan and atleast place a small Naav in a Thaali in front of our own Shree Thakorji and express to Prabhu our bhaav of the manorath.


Reply author: pranavkg
Date: 20 April 2006 20:58:37
Message:

Jai Shri Krishna,

Thanks Shreekantbhai for your guidance.

Pranav


Reply author: dadaji
Date: 21 April 2006 19:01:50
Message:

Jay Jay Shree Gokulesh,

Brahmanande pravisthanam aatmanaiva sukh prama sangatasya vilintvat bhaktanam tu visheshtah sarvendriyaisahtantah karanairatmani hi brahmabhavattu bhaktanam gruh eva vishishyate..
means - Brahmagyaniyoko keval atmase hi anubhav hota hai, parantu bhakto ko keval atmase  hi nahi apitu sabhi indriyose antahkaranse bhajananand ka anubhav gharme rahkar Shri Thakorji ki sewa se ho jata hai.
"Gruhe sthitva swadharmatah."
"Durlabh manush janma"


Reply author: unnati
Date: 28 April 2006 13:31:02
Message:

Jai jai shri gikulesh

Haripriyaji, thanx for such a beautiful quote.

Unnati Kadakia


Reply author: dadaji
Date: 28 April 2006 15:20:29
Message:

Jay Jay Shree Gokulesh,

In this discussion i feel something missing , not cleared. Waiting for satisfactory explanation....


Reply author: jigershah
Date: 28 April 2006 18:06:11
Message:

dear  haripriya

nice explaination all over in our pushti margs and anya marga it is said that

manushya jaanms is durlabh lets expand on this share some of your knowledge

i will give my views may be i can learn a bit more

jsk jiger shah


Reply author: hit
Date: 28 April 2006 23:27:43
Message:

Jsk,

'Sadrup' Shri Vallabh! naam tiharo.
Sewa katha bina mohi lagat, vishsam sab sansarau.. SADRUP

Hitkrutsatam vinti sunhu hamari.
kaalvyaalki satvar gati dekhi, bhaya upajat hai bhari...HITKRTSATAM

Kandivli, Bombayme Shri Shyambawashri ke vachanamrutmese kuch ansh..
Shri Mahaprabhujike granth barabar samazna chhahiye otherwise udhaike jaise apane maargko kamjor bana denge. Shri Mahaprabhuki baat alag tarahse karengeto cement ke saath udhai aa gai samazo aur building ko kamzor bana denge. jo logko apana maarg pasand nahi avegato koi bhi problem khde karenge.Abhay bano aur apani sachhi baat rakho. nahito koi aur panth suru ho jayega.
Daily Shrimad Bhagvatka pathan karna chhahiye par apaneko sab western readymade type achha lage so hum koibhi kath karnewaleke paas chhale jate hai aur kuch alaghi janne lagte hai. Apane aadi purvaj pahele Mahaprabhuji hai unki baat suno phir kaho.


Reply author: hit
Date: 30 April 2006 15:14:12
Message:

Jsk,
some more...
Tanuvittaja is one word. not tanuja sewa, vittaja sewa -aise break karke bataneme viprit arth nikalta hai. kabhibhi aisa batane se pahele hazar baar sochhana kyoki aap sewa nahi kusewa kar rahe ho aur apane maargki disha badal rahe ho.
( abi sub bhelselka zamana hai kisiko pure digest karana mushkil hota hai).
padho, samjo fir kaho. kaho sirf Mahaprabhujiki vaani ka sahi arth.


Reply author: dadaji
Date: 30 April 2006 15:35:56
Message:

Jay Jay Shree Gokulesh,
Hitbhai , we must digest. pl. continue. 


Reply author: gopal
Date: 03 May 2006 14:30:40
Message:

Jai Jai ShriGokulesh

            U r right hitenbhai that the word TANUVITTAJA is the samast pad, and cannot be break in tanuja and vittaja seva. There is always misunderstanding between 2 different peoples, But it is world, let it go................


Reply author: shreekant22
Date: 04 May 2006 20:31:03
Message:

Jai Shree Krishna

Yes, In fact this very word/ pad highlights the agyaan of Gruhaseva. Shree Mahaparabhuji, through this combined word very very clearly tells us that such a combination is the true form of seva. Now, such a seva is only possible by one at ones own gruha only, not anywere else.

At a Haveli, we can neither perform the tanuvittaja seva nor offer Tanuja or Vittaja seva independently to the biraajmaan swaroopa. In fact it is very important to understand this fact clearly.

The Swaroopa Biraajmaan at a haveli (Place were Shree Gobalak resides) is the Nidhi/sevya swaroopa of the Gobalak. Hence anything and everything offered/done at the haveli by a Vaishnav is not done / offered to the swaroopa.  It is in fact offered to the Gobalak with a request that the same may be offered to Shree Thakorji.  It is discretion of the biraajmaan Gobalak to offer the same to Shree Thakorji or not. Even when we are doing physical seva at teh haveli, like makng malaji, refining and preparing of vegetables, fruits etc. we as vaishnav are preveledged to do so merely because of the karuna and krupa of the biraajmaan Gobalak, and the ideal perception of a Vaishanv ought to be that he is humbly doing so merely as the Vallabhkul Gobalak has been krupalu enough to allow such sevas to be carried out by vaishnavs. In conclusion, the sevas offered by Vaishnavs at a haveli are those that have been extenede to them by the Vallabhkul gobalak, and are being done merely as per the Gobalaks agyaan. These seva, though may eventually reach Shree Thakorji, as far as a Vaishnav is concerned, he is doing them only to please the Guru biraajmaan. Hence them seva cannot be perceieved as Tanuvittaja seva of Shree Thakorji, as prescribed by Shree Vallabh. 

This is as per my limited understanding. I truely and sincerely hope the badbhaagi Vaishnav members of this site will enlighten us all more.


Reply author: jigershah
Date: 05 May 2006 18:07:22
Message:

dear hit and shreekant bhia

please help me here

in puranmal kshtri varta  acharya charan has praised his vittaja seva of temple construction and

blessed him with   seva to apply chandan to govardhan dhar

while while ram das sanodhia brahmin who was given tanuja seva as prime mukhiya ji

and so did ashtsakha  have  and numerous other vaishnavs hasve onlt performed tanu ja seva

gajjan dhavan  is also a great example

so under what context that word is one word is it for gruh seva

cause as i understand that it is impossible to seperaate this word  only in nitya gruh seva

please explain  

jsk jiger shah


Reply author: shreekant22
Date: 06 May 2006 14:30:57
Message:

Jai Shree Krishna

Very well pointed out, Jiger bhai, the word Tanuvittaja has been used together only in the context of Gruhaseva by Shree Vallabh.

We should also understand the reason for the same....In doing Gruha seva, were in there are multiple members in the family, all ought to take part in seva of Shree Thakorji in Tannuvittaja form. Being a earning member of the family, one cannot simply say that I contribute my share in seva by giving money, so on and so forth. Ideal seva in the family is that were in all members contribute at all levels and also to what ever best extent possible by them.

There is also a very important reason for this....

One may be the earning member but once in seva, the very same person, though he may be the Managing director of a company / CEO and what not, but in seva, he/she has to do the various acts like doing buhari, cleaning of utensils, preparing of samagri etc. for Shree Thakorji. The very same person may have many persons to attend to him, but to the Sevya swaroopa, only he has to attend. This is a very essential step towards deenta. Ego and Myness creeps into a  jeev quite easily.... the various chores in seva, ensure that we once again become concsious about these and work towards getting rid of them.  Gruhaseva, ensures that  the eleviation of ahanta and mamata that may happen to one because of  money/sadhan (Vittaja) is nullified by tanuja in its various actions. 

Also, The ashta sakhas too did seva of their own sevya swaroopa too. Shree Ramdasji Chauhan, who did seva of Shreeji bawa, also did seva of Shree Mukundraiji at home.

The word Tanuvittaja has been used together also in the context of Manasi seva..... Cautioning jeevs, Mahaprabhuji has said that , one cannot attain the state of manasi, by giving money to someone and getting seva done, and therefore think of gaining Manasi seva. To Highlight the fact that one can progress towards manasi seva only  only by doing the physical seva of Shree Thakorji using once own money , the combined word Tanuvittaja has been used.

The very combination of the word also cautions jeevs that to get seva done by Bhitariyaas and paying them money for the same even in once own house is not seva at all. True seva is that which a Vaishnav does himself. 

 


Reply author: PG9
Date: 06 May 2006 22:28:50
Message:

I am very curious as to whether the vaishnavs as pointed out by Shri Jiger Shah, and there are many in 252/84 vaishnavs, who did either Tanuja Seva or Vittaja, did they all achieve a lower 'Fal' (result) than the ones who did Tanu-Vittaja Seva. Can we classify them according to what Shri Shrikantji is saying in higher and lower categories. I mean the Asht Sakhas who did not do Gruh Seva, or innumerable other vaishnavs did they anubhav Shri Thakurji less.

PG


Reply author: jigershah
Date: 07 May 2006 09:39:01
Message:

dear pg

there is no sadhan that works it is gods wish on how much kripa he will shower on the jeev

after construction of temple only by financial seva puran mal was established in faal dasha

by grace of shree vallabh prabhu  so there is no comparision here on how much a soul needs to do

to achive grace or faal  of pushit from god there are  no set rules it is all up to wish of god him self

some vaishnavs enjoyed faal dasha like gajjan dhavan and some did not  like govind das bhalla

but they all were able to enter the golok that is important

jsk jiger shah

 


Reply author: anoopjp
Date: 07 May 2006 23:00:59
Message:

Dear Vaishnavs

JAi Shree Krishna

Very interesting topic... I would like to add that in Pushtimarg the phal of seva is seva. If you are good at doing seva in Mnushya Deha in this loka when you will leave bhutal your own sevya swarup will take you to the inner sanctums of Goloka and introduce you to the seva of koti kandarpa lavanya purna pushti purushottam  gopijan vallabh shree Krishna and shree swaminiji. Also in the dhol of Shree Gos Devkinandanji it is said that

AAshro aik dradh shree vallabhadhish ko

Maanasi reet ki mukhya seva vyasan

Maansi seva is acheived only when a pushtimargi vaishnav reaches Vyasan dasha i.e. he cannot live without the seva of his sevya swaroop.

Maansi seva is the limit of pushtimargi seva where the vaishnav puts his mann budhhi, chit and all his indriyas in thakorji's seva.

Anoop


Reply author: PG9
Date: 08 May 2006 10:31:39
Message:

Shri Jiger Shah, , Thank you for replying,

But Shri Anoopji... What about the 84/252 bhagvadiyas who did not have their own sevya swarup for some reason. Did they not attain Gaulok, did they not attain manasi.

I mean in the present context also there are so many vaishnavs, who for genuine reasons may not be able to do seva of their own sevya swarup. What about them?

PG


Reply author: unnati
Date: 08 May 2006 13:29:40
Message:

Jai jai shri gokulesh

I have found the topic related to haveli or nijseva ( Goswami Shri Manmathrai Bawaji's Posting )  which has been previously discussed at pustikul itself. Here is the following link.

http://www.pushtikul.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1227&FORUM_ID=4&CAT_ID=7&Topic_Title=%3Cb%3EGruh+Seva+Only%2E%2E%2E%2E%2E%2E%2E%2E%2E%2E%2E%2E%2E%2E%2E%3C%2Fb%3E&Forum_Title=%3Cb%3EKrishna+%26+His+Leelas%3C%2Fb%3E

Also i would like everyone to go through this link. And Please Mr. Admin/ moderator/ president or whom so ever it may concern Please dont remove this posting. Let the doubt be cleared.  

Unnati Kadakia


Reply author: jigershah
Date: 08 May 2006 17:30:55
Message:

jsk

 84/252 vaishnavs all achived golok but they all performed  seva  

 vasudeva chakada never had his own swroop

son of kumbhan das only served cows in gau shala and was killed bya tiger

yet they all achived golok dham that is the reason that their jeevan charitra is served as

an example  and i wish dear hit will also provide his line of thinking

beauty of satsang is there is no such thing as wrong answer  it is all different views exchanged

jsk jiger shah


Reply author: shreekant22
Date: 08 May 2006 20:02:41
Message:

quote:

I am very curious as to whether the vaishnavs as pointed out by Shri Jiger Shah, and there are many in 252/84 vaishnavs, who did either Tanuja Seva or Vittaja, did they all achieve a lower 'Fal' (result) than the ones who did Tanu-Vittaja Seva. Can we classify them according to what Shri Shrikantji is saying in higher and lower categories. I mean the Asht Sakhas who did not do Gruh Seva, or innumerable other vaishnavs did they anubhav Shri Thakurji less.

PG


Jai Shree Krishna

Please please please, nowere have i classified things into lower fal and higher fal.

It is of utmost importance to understand that Tanuvittaja simple means using ones own money/ sahdans and personally attending /doing  seva of Shree Thakorji. This very terms according to the best of my understanding had been laid down for the simple reason that when a Vaishnav does seva, he should neither use his wealth as the only means of doing seva (by employing bhitaryaas etc.)  nor seek wealth from other Vaishnavs/ jeevs in order to do the seva of his Sevya swaroopa.  it is very obvious that in both the ways one is not actually serving Shree Thakorji, For in one way he is using his wealth to seek others help to do seva, inspite of he/she being physically capable of attending to Shree Thakorji. In this way we, though remaining a das of Shree Thakorji, appoint another das to attend to him. In the other way round, eventually Seva itself beocmes a means of livelihood, as one is doing seva, but the sadhan for the seva comes from else were.

Either way the simple principle of the marg were in the means and the Goal are both one is lost. 

When we say SEVA, it is not just restricted to Swaroop seva, but  includes Naam seva too.

Superseeding the Nine ways of Bhakthi...  is the Premlakshana bhakthi, which is the essence of pushitmarg and Seva. The Premlakshana bhakthi is that of the Gopis of Vraj. And Shree Mahaprabhuji through Pushtimarg has highlighted this bhakthi and asked us to follow the path followed by Gopijan to seek Shree Thakorji. We through Brahmasamband, offer everything that seems to be ours to prabhu, and accept Shree Thakorji as Everthing of ours. The very same way in which the Gopijan surrendered all that is theirs to Prabhu and only had thoughts of Shree Krishna at all times and everymoment. We as Vaishnavs have to follow this very simple principle too.

Vaishnavs,

Times have changed, the very socio-cultural ambience in which we all live have changed. Not all of us are fortunate enough to have Shree Vallabh Vanshaj  Gobalaks biraajmaan in our towns/cities to offer immidiate guidance and more importantly to continuously instill enthusiasm and prod us into understanding the most finer nuances of our marg. As a result, our understanding of the marg too has beocme low. Low  to the extant that many have failed to differentiate between Seva nad Pooja. Many of us percieve Brahmasamband as a mere ritual. The sanctity of Naam mantra has totaly vanished, even cooks and maids are given naam mantra, for the personal conveneinces. (The naam mantra is provided to them with the kanti, without them even knowing what it is for and whats are its implications)

Under such  varying circumstances, we all are striving to live as Pushtimargiya Vaishnavs, holding on tightly to what little we know, grasping at the extra bit that we can gather through pravachans, vachnamruts and satsangs.

Let me present a real life story of a Vaishnav, whom I know very very closely. In fact, no jeev can know him more closely thanmyself....

The Vaishnav belongs to a family were in Shree Thakorjis swaroopa is biraajmaan for more than 4 generations. While he as child was inculcated into seva pranali, and had a very very brief purview of Pushtimarg. His personal understanding of the Marg ended with a very basic knowledge of seva and certain nuances of it. To be very frank, untill a few years back, the Vaishnav knew little difference between seva and pooja.

About Five years back, With the krupa of the Gobalak Biraajmaan in Chennai, PPG 108 Shree Ajay bawashree, during the Adhik maas, The Chappan bhog Manorath was organised. Such a devine manorath ensures a huge gathering of Vaishnavs, and our Vaishnav bhai to visited the venue for the various darshans. One thing to led to other, and  our Vaishnav bhai for the very first time witnessed an affluence of the various factes of Pushtimarg. With Shree Thakorjis krupa, the Vaishnav felt the urge to understand the marg better, and by chance happened to gather the books of 252 varthas. What started as a chanced reading of these varthas, slowly and surely brought in startling transformations into this jeev, and by the time he reached the last of the varthas, our bhai had shed everthing else behind, and to him now it was the sevya swaroopa of their home and nothing else.

Here is a startling example of how a Haveli, Shree Thakorjis divya krupa, the biraajmaan Gobalak, and the sang of various Vaishnavs have transformed a hitherto alien jeev and brought him under the foled of pushtimarg.

If not for the existance of the Haveli, the happening of the Chappan bhog manorath and the welcome attitude of the Bawashree, such a transformation would not have been possible.

Havelis are must for the proper channelisation and dissipation of information and knowledge of the marg and nothing can be a better source than the same.

However, While a Haveli can be the resource of inspiration and understanding, they cannot become the very source in itself.  Just like the sun, which gives us light  but it cannot become our  vision itself.  We all know what will happen if we were to make sun as our place of living, just because it is the source of light.  The source as advised by Shree Vallabh is the one and only Yashodatsangalalit Poornapurushottam Shree Krishna only. And to reach him, one has to do his SEVA, like a that of a Gopi, by personally tending to his needs or by doing his Chintan (naam seva).

This topic was posted more to clearly understand the realise the co-existance of both Haveli and Nijseva, and most importantly to understand the significant role of a vaishnav towards haveli and to realise the abolute necessity of performing Nijseva, for self realisation and anugraha of Shree Thakorji.

Today innumerable Vaishnavs have settled at various locations quite far off from our country, and it is amazing to see them contnue to perform seva of Shree Thakorji at their homes. However, with changing lifestyles, jobs and other requirements, not all in the family can participate in seva. Such locational, physical and material constraints neccasitate the existance of a Independant Havelis under the direct supervision of a Vallabh vanshaj Gobalak.  Their existance at such alein locations, ensure that the pushtibeej can spread its evolutionary aura among the jeevs and inculcate the margs pushti bhaav into us.

This however is no valid reason to keep opening Havelis at our will and pleasure, wims and fancies, foregoing  Gruhaseva of Shree Thakorji. 

The need of the hour is to for us as Vaishnavs, to individualy analyse, realise and act accordingly. To co- hesively progress, balancing our role both at home and at Haveli. It is not possible to re write history. It is not  possible to rewind 350 years back, what is possible is to understand what is happening today and take our next step in the right direction, a direction that will ensure the wholistic existance of pushtimarg as a single entity, inspite of its innumerable facets and adding sparkle to this devine diamond will be Nijseva/Gruhaseva done by the Vaishnavs at their homes, by themselves using their own wealth.

I offer my apologies to one and all, if anything irrelavant that may have been said by me,  or if I have hurt anyone in expressing my views.

Jai Shree Krishna

 


Reply author: Goswami ShriVitthalraiji
Date: 11 May 2006 09:11:23
Message:


Reply author: Goswami ShriVitthalraiji
Date: 11 May 2006 09:22:09
Message:


Reply author: Goswami ShriVitthalraiji
Date: 11 May 2006 09:29:53
Message:


Reply author: Goswami ShriVitthalraiji
Date: 11 May 2006 09:36:49
Message:


Reply author: Goswami ShriVitthalraiji
Date: 11 May 2006 09:49:45
Message:


Reply author: Goswami ShriVitthalraiji
Date: 11 May 2006 09:59:43
Message:


Reply author: Goswami ShriVitthalraiji
Date: 11 May 2006 10:03:52
Message:


Reply author: gopal
Date: 11 May 2006 10:07:19
Message:

| | ShriGokulesho Jayati | |

Dandwat Pranam Bavashri

             It is our Ahobhagya that aapshri had done atishram for enlightining with the facts of pushtimarg.


Reply author: unnati
Date: 11 May 2006 10:21:52
Message:

Je Je Dandwat Pranam

It really being pleasure to recieve Aapshri's Vachnamrut which helps to clarify the doubts.

Unnati Kadakia.

 


Reply author: friendmonu
Date: 11 May 2006 13:40:15
Message:

   Dandawat Pranam Je Je,
   
    Aapshri ne sabhi vaishnav ke liye shram karke jo margdarshan kiya hai

    woh sabhi ke liye labhdayi rahega aur sabhi doubt clear karega.

    Dandavat Pranam.


Reply author: shreekant22
Date: 11 May 2006 16:26:56
Message:

Shree Vallabha Deesh ki Jai.

Sashtaang dandvat pranam to Je Je.

My most humble apologies to aapshree, that my observations have made aapshree to take the extreme shram of providing the requisite clarifications, and enlightening us with your devine vachnamruts.

I am indeed very happy that , Aapshree has clarified the topic in such great detail. What is most joyous is that Aapshree have been krupalu enough to carefully note my obeservations and duly clarify them. I am indeed grateful to you for showering such grace on me.  I am a very small doosht jeev, trying to understand the basics of Pushtimarg, and only with the such krupa, and the grace of Shree Pabhu hope to place the first step in the right direction.

Sashtaang dandvat pranams

Shree Vallabha deesh ki Jai.

 

 


Reply author: gopal
Date: 12 May 2006 11:29:05
Message:

| | ShriGokulesho Jayati | |

     This is really the encouraging part, that we r trying to learn the treaties of SHriMahaprabhuji. The granths of shrimahaprabhuji teaches us many things, and moreover the Commentries written on that granths clears our most of the doubts, which we r not aware. Siddhant Rahashya granth'sShripurushottamcharan'stika, Bhaktivardhini granth, Shrigokulnathjis tika, etc, Many Many Mahanubhaav Aacharyas and Vidhvaans had written many commentries, to make our pushtimarg easy and also the granths of shrimahaprabhuji to understand easily.

      Let us all explore some granths, Moreover Anthkaran Prabodh granth had also been discussed, Bhaktivardhini Granth is going on, Why can we join to gether to learn this granths.........................


Reply author: DATTUBHAI
Date: 13 May 2006 18:52:24
Message:

SASTANG DANDVAT PRANAM JE JE.

VALLABHADISHJI KI JAY.

Every word of your article have deep meaning.Everyword is itself enlightening marg leading towards intimacy with Thakurji.

Please bless us to understand and follow the path with deep love.

Krupanidhi ki krupa ase hi milti rahe  yahi prathana.

Sastang Dandvat Pranam.


Reply author: unnati
Date: 13 May 2006 19:08:30
Message:

Dandwat pranam to Je Je and Jai jai shri gokulesh to all dear vaishnavs,

Well I totally agree with you Gopalbhai instead of falling in to the unnecessary controversy its much better to share the knowledge regarding the Pustimargiya Granth and also to acheive it through the other Vaishnavs who themselves is clear in there concepts.

Unnati kadakia


Reply author: jigershah
Date: 14 May 2006 10:41:28
Message:

dear acharya shri dandvaat pranaam

thanks for your  grace and great detailed explaination

your  dasa jiger shah


Reply author: dadaji
Date: 15 May 2006 09:22:09
Message:

No words...!!! only i can say Dandvat pranam, JeJe.


Reply author: purvi
Date: 15 May 2006 11:09:54
Message:

dandwat pranam to jeje.

aapshri ke vachanamrut sada krupa karne ke liye aur vaishnavo ko sahi marg dikhane ke liye hi hote hain.

dandwat pranam.


Reply author: gopal
Date: 17 May 2006 17:40:37
Message:

Jai Jai ShriGokulesh

         The Below link says something regarding Haveli

http://www.alkapurihaveli.org/pusthipravah/quesans/ques%20021.htm


Reply author: jigershah
Date: 17 May 2006 17:54:23
Message:

jsk

antah karan prabodh  granth was created by achary shri after he did regarded two agya of thakurji to return to golok

this granth is addressed to self to propel tthe doubt that shri ji bawa was not upset this him on account of not following two agya

but indirectly this is a great motivational  stotra as it says

that a chandal stree once she becomes wife of a king will never be the same even if king

removes her from the list of his beloved queen she will still be a queen and will never be a chandal stree

a soul once acepted in pushti marga will never be the same golok yatra may be delayed

but soul will not end up being maryada or pravahi jeeva soul will remain a pushti soul

jsk jiger shah


Reply author: dadaji
Date: 20 May 2006 19:18:54
Message:

Jai Jai Shree Gokulesh,

Pushti jeev will remain pushti jeev but - Harina ye vinirmuktas te magna bhav sagare..Nirodh lakshan.


Reply author: dadaji
Date: 22 May 2006 13:59:51
Message:

JeJe Dandvat pranam,

I read again and again Your posting, wanted to raise questions but not able to find a single one. Complete explanation with praman, easy to understand and not a single word is unnecessarily used. 


Reply author: gopal
Date: 22 May 2006 15:49:11
Message:

Jai Jai ShriGokulesh,

            Pujya ShriVitthalraiji Bavashri Had kept all sided explainations (vachnamruts) to guide us to the path of ShriMahaprabhuji. Aapshri had taken every step that no loop holes remains to get the query solved.


Reply author: goswami manmathrai
Date: 06 November 2006 11:13:10
Message:

||Shri Hari||

||Vijayte Shri BALKRISHNA PRABHU||

Vidvadvaurey,Vidya-NIDHI GOSWAMI 108 Shri VITTHALRAIji (MAMAji \ Dadabhai) ko koti koti NAMASKAAR!

Bahut samay baad PUSHTIKUL firse aaya to Aap ke VACHNAMRUT Padh kar tatha Purvaacharyon ke Vaakya dekh aanand to bahut hua kintu, vishay itna Vistrit tatha Gahen hogaya hoga iska to dhyaan hi nahi tha mujhe!

Meri kisi baat se yadi Aapko Stabhd hone ka Parishram pada ho to main uske liye Kshama chahta hoon,lekin mere Promoters/Creators kehne ka Aaashay yeh tha ki...

Vaarta Saahitya mein bhi nijbhakton ko Shriji sanmukh tatha Shri NAVNEETPRIYAji sanmukh Nij Grahon mein DARSHAN,MARGIYA PADHATTI tatha Saampradayik Sukshmtaon se Aacharyon ne Parichit karaaya hi hai...

main to BADO ke aage kya kahoon, Jab MAALA TILAK ke RAKSHAK MAATHE Biraaje hain,to hum to Aapki Chhatrachaaya mein Su-Rakshit Baithe hi hai...Nih-Sandeh aapke Vachnamrut padh mere bhi asankhya Sanshayon ka nivaaran tatkaal hua hai...aur aisi Kripaa hum sabhi Chote-Chote Balkon tatha Vallabhiya Vaishnavo par bani rahe...yahi vinati Shri VITTHALRAIji ke charnon mein rakhta hoon!


Reply author: PG9
Date: 15 November 2006 23:03:46
Message:

Dandvat Jeje,

You have done kripa and provided an answer to a very important discussion that is going on here.

" Vaarta Saahitya mein bhi nijbhakton ko Shriji sanmukh tatha Shri NAVNEETPRIYAji sanmukh Nij Grahon mein DARSHAN,MARGIYA PADHATTI tatha Saampradayik Sukshmtaon se Aacharyon ne Parichit karaaya hi hai..."

But I am not able to understand exactly what the above words mean, so please let me verify.  Does it mean that in the 84/252 vaishnavs, there are prasangs where Shri Acharyaji has allowed Nij-Vaishnavs to have darshan of Shri Govardhannathji and Shri Navneetpriyaji.

Like the Ashtasakhas (Govindswami...) who did kirtan seva of Shriji, and Shri Thakurji was so sanubhav to them that he played with them, even hit them with stones. And this sanubhav was while in a haveli. According to me Shri Thakurji has never differentiated between Vallabh's sevaks, as to where he was doing seva. Haveli or Nij-Ghar. He has always looked towards the bhav.

Are there any prasangs where Shriji or Shri Vallabh has said that those who do seva in the house or those who visit havelis "also" while doing gruh seva will get different results. One is a higher jeeva and the other one lower. Is there any such comparision. Then what about prasangs such as Govindswami, Gajjan Dhawan and innumerable such vaishnavs.

Is my thinking on the same lines of what you have said ?

Pranam,

PG


Reply author: Goswami ShriVitthalraiji
Date: 16 November 2006 10:53:44
Message:


Reply author: gopal
Date: 16 November 2006 15:30:49
Message:

|| ShriGokulesho Jayati ||

Dandwat Pranam Pujya ShriVitthalraiji Bavashri and ShriManmathraiji Bavashri,

    And Jai Jai ShriGokulesh to All Sevak-Vaishnavas.

Dear Tusharji (PG) the question u pointed is worthful. But it is not the thing, whiich we understand. If we refer the Vaarta Prasangs very very carefully, Only few sevak-vaishnavas were allowed to have Darshan of ShriNavnitpriyaji. Shrinathji bava is the Optional case, as it was the own Wish of Shrinathji bava to reside in Public Place. But ShriNavnitpriyaji and other Pushti-Sevya-Swaroops were been served in the family of ShriMahaprabhuji. So When we read the Vaarta Prasangs,at some places we find the AAgyna (orders) of ShriMahaprabhuji or ShriGusaijiprabhucharan that aapshri gave aagyna to have Darshana, And that too was only for few sevak-vaishnavas. So it does not interprete them to follow the Haveli Prakaar. And For Govind Swami's prasang, Govind swami's life was Shrinathji, and Shrinathji bava used to talk, walk, play eat, etc Do all the Kriyas with Govind Swami. So if we can follow such life, then there is no haveli or gruh seva. It's purely Pure Non-Dual Love for ShriPrabhu by Sevak.

    We will not find any prasangs, but 1 Vaarta Prasang of Ramdas who used to serve ShriThakurji at home, but when ShriMahaprabhuji gave aagyna to stay in Seva of Shrinathji bava at Shrijidwar, then had to follow the aagyna. But still was feeling the taap-bhaav for own shriprabhu which was been served by him. We can read the vaarta prasangs. So no  such  orders given for both gruh seva and haveli seva, as it is not the Siddhant.


Reply author: PG9
Date: 19 November 2006 17:55:56
Message:

Dandvat Pranam to Vallabhkul

Bhagvad Smaran to all Vaishnavs

Going through the last couple of msgs I have some doubts which are highly related to the topic going on. Please do not think I am going off topic, I will explain when I receive the answers to those doubts.

Dear Gopalji, you write:

  1. Jai Jai ShriGokulesh (other vaishnavs say 'Jai Shri Krishna')
  2. You write ' Shri Gokulesho Jayati'
  3. Respected Shri Vitthalraiji belongs to ' Chaturth Peeth' (out of 7 peeths in Sampradaya)
  4. The tilak shown in His letterhead is different to what is generally done.
  5. Every Respected Vallabhkul has ' Goswami' as a title.

Please do not get me wrong. Not for a moment am I doubting or inquiring right now about the reasons behind these beautiful traditions. I know so less about the sampradaya, it would be quite foolish to do so.These are just some salient points that sprang out while reading the last few msgs. My doubt is...

How many of these traditions (and so many others) began as an agya of Shri Vallabh or where incorporated during his times ? or were these added as the sampradaya went on spreading under his illustrious Kul.

I repeat, this is not off topic, and you will realise from the question the direction in which my doubts are headed.

Tushar.


Reply author: PG9
Date: 20 November 2006 13:46:10
Message:

Dear Gopalji,

One more query,

All the prasangs that I mentioned have been regarded by you as follows:

  1. Shrinathjibava is the optional case
  2. Govindswami's prasang cannot be followed
  3. Ramdasji cannot be quoted

Is it really reasonable to grade everything that is not suitable to our logic as ' Exceptions or impossibilities'  that cannot be accepted as justification.

Tushar.


Reply author: gopal
Date: 20 November 2006 18:31:41
Message:

Jai Jai ShriGokulesh

      Tusharji for ur first query of why Jai Jai ShriGokulesh,?? many of the sevak-vaishnavs from other shrigurudwars do say this, and so 1 topic i tried to discuss here's below link will help to solve the query.

http://www.pushtikul.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1409&FORUM_ID=1&CAT_ID=7&Topic_Title=%3Cb%3EWhy+Jai+Jai+ShriGokulesh%3F%3C%2Fb%3E&Forum_Title=%3Cb%3EDisscuss+it+all%2E+%3C%2Fb%3E

   For second query, we write ShriGokulesho Jayati It is the Vijay of ShriChaturthkumar ShriGokulnathji, as i m the follower of ShriGokuleshprabhu's dwar, so i write. U will find that many write, 

||Shri Hari||

||Vijayte Shri BALKRISHNA PRABHU|| ,

etc, so it's the respect to the ShriGurudwar, ShriPrabhu whom they r serving as a sevak.

For 3rd query, The present Aacharya at ShriChaturthpeeth of Suddhadwait Pushtimarg is Chaturthpeethadhishwar Pujyacharan Gurudev Goswamey ShriDevkinandanacharyashri (ShriSureshbavashri -- Shrimad Gokul) And Pujyacharan Goswamey ShriVitthalraiji Bavashri is the AAtmaj of ShriGurudev ShriDevkinandanacharyashri.

4th query. The followers of ShriGusaiji's Chaturthkumar ShriGokulnathji Maharajshri Does the tilak of '||' shaped. So normally we find U shaped, which is been accepted by other 6 dwars of pushtimarg, but Chaturthpeeth Followers does the '||' -- Dandakaar tilak. This topic we had discussed here on pushtikul.

5th. We call the Vallabhkul Balaks as Goswami..... This is the Respect mark for a Vallabhkul Balak. ShriMahaprabhuji's Dwitiya Aatmaj ShriVitthalnathji was given the Name as Gosaiji, The server of Gai-Cow. So slowly became as ShriGusaiji. And son of ShriGusaiji is Goswami.

quote:

Dear Gopalji, you write:

  1. Jai Jai ShriGokulesh (other vaishnavs say 'Jai Shri Krishna')
  2. You write ' Shri Gokulesho Jayati'
  3. Respected Shri Vitthalraiji belongs to ' Chaturth Peeth' (out of 7 peeths in Sampradaya)
  4. The tilak shown in His letterhead is different to what is generally done.
  5. Every Respected Vallabhkul has ' Goswami' as a title.


    I think i had tried to solve query of Tusharbhai, if i m wrong anywhere, pls Vaishnavas do correct me. any further query, is awaited.


Reply author: nirenthakar
Date: 20 November 2006 18:42:41
Message:

Jai Shree Krishna,

Shri Shreekantji as you have mentioned about great surge in Number of Havelis, that might be true but that does not imply that Vaishnavs are not  opting for Gurha Seva. I always see more n more people buying Sringar samagari and also were ever there is a Haveli you will always spot a Shop with Seva samagri . Even at Nathdwara streets are full of such shops and they are crowded too. And i hope they are purchasing for there Nij Swarups. And over all population rise and different residential locations coming up also contrubutes to rise in no. of havelis.

And to some extend your veiw point is also true.

Niren

 


Reply author: gopal
Date: 21 November 2006 10:56:32
Message:

Jai Jai ShriGokulesh

    Shreenathjibava is Optional Case. ----> If we had gone through the vaarta prasangs then when we read the 84 Vaishnavas vaarta, we find that Puranmal Kshatriya was given orders by Shrinathji bava in dreams that coem to Braj-Bhoomi. So when Puranmal Kshatriya came to ShriBraj-Bhoomi, he told the whole of the scene what shrinathji bava gave orders to him in dreams to the Braj-Vaasis. But at that time ShriMahaprabhuji was not at braj, but was doing Prithvi Parikrama. So Puranmal Kshatriya had to wait there, till ShriMahaprabhuji comes to Braj. So when shrimahaprabhuji came to Braj, Puranmal Kshatriya told the whole of the dialogues which happened to him in dreams to ShriMahaprabhuji, sso ShriMahaprabhuji first took Kshatriya to surrender and made Sevaka. And then Taking the Subh-Muhurat started to build a New Temple for Shrinathji bava at ShriGirirajji. So the Architects were called to draw the blue-print for the temple. So When first time the architect draw the blue-print, the temple's outlook came with Dhwajaji-Kalash. So Shrimahaprabhuji cancelled the drawing. And again ordered to draw the temple port-folio like a nandalay. But aggain the same picture came. And also the 3rd time the same happened. So here ShriMahaprabhuji understood that it is shrinathji bava's wish to be worshipped in the world by staying in public place. After the work of Temple finished, ShriMahaprabhuji appointed the Bhitariyas, jalghadiyas, Kirtaniyas, etc for the smooth functions of the Service of Shrinathji. ShriMahaprabhuji also fixed the timings of Darshanas ( Astsamay na Darshan-Jhakhi)

   This is one aspect, Now let us understand for ShriNavnitpriyaji, which was the swaroop been served by ShriMahaprabhuji in his own house, and by family members.  Shrimahaprabhu and family members used to do seva of ShriNavnitpriyaji by own. They didn't appoint any such persons like Bhitariyas, Jalgadiyas, Kirtaniyas. So here we find a difference from Shrinathji bava with ShriNavnitpriyaji,. Also ShriGokulnathji, ShriBalkrishnaji, ShriKalyanraiji, etc swaroops were been served at home. Still we say that Shrinathji bava is not an Apvad-excemption??? Can anyone justify how shrinathji bava is not an exemption????????

    Now considering the Vaarta Prasangs. First of all we should always keep in mind that these Vaarta prasangs (84, 252, 78) Charitras r the Ideals, and we cannot compare those jeevs with today's situation. Just in gujarati we say Band besti Paghadi naa Paherai, Similarly Vaarta prasangs teaches us how is the Pushtimarg Important, and what ways to life them. But to not follow them. Just if we recall a vaarta prasang. One of the Sevakini of ShriGusaiji, A Vaishya (female vashya) who used to do seva during the periods (menstrual cycle). So someone complained to ShriGusaiji regarding this. So Shrigusaiji gave aagyna that let her do, but no one should copy her. This is Excemption. So do we get this orders??? Can we compare the Love-affection of that Vaishya for Shrithakurji and with us, to our shrithakurji???

    A miser was directly given Manasi Seva, without doing Tanu-Vittaja, this is Excemption or not????? Do we get this?????

     Achyut das was also given Manasi seva, without doing Tanu-Vittaja seva, but we don't get????? Why??????

      We should question to ourselfes only for this.

      Just take the examples of our pushtimargi's Ideal ShriVrajSwaminijis, They were the exemptions, otherwise the love wouldn't have came. They were females, and still they broke all the restrictions for them to meet shriprabhu. Also ShriThakurji ShriKRishnachandra. Being a Prabhu-Purnapurushottam Parmatma, should take birth in the Uttam Kul, but grew up in a Illiterate -- Aahir Shrinandraijis house, and played did all kridas with the illileterate gwal-baals,. This is not an Exemption????? It is true that it is leela of Prabhu, but We should always keep in mind that Apvaad-Excemption and Niyam-rule, r the 2 sides of a coin. They always follows each other. So even if it is the Prasang of Govind swami or Ramdas, or any of the other Bhagwadiyas, they all r Exemptions. We can only learn the siddhant from their vaartas, but cannot compare them with us.

 

quote:
Dear Gopalji,

One more query,  All the prasangs that I mentioned have been regarded by you as follows:

  1. Shrinathjibava is the optional case
  2. Govindswami's prasang cannot be followed
  3. Ramdasji cannot be quoted

Is it really reasonable to grade everything that is not suitable to our logic as ' Exceptions or impossibilities'  that cannot be accepted as justification.

Tushar.


   Still some doubt, then further queries r welcomed.


Reply author: gopal
Date: 21 November 2006 11:19:18
Message:

Jai Jai ShriGokulesh

    One of my friend when opens the shop, he first does pranam before entering the shop, Then he enters the shop, and does the Diva-Batti in front of a Chitraji of Shrinathji bava. He had also covered the chitraji of Shrinathji bava with Vastraji. Now he says that before starting sales in the shop, i do seva of shrinathji.

    One Doctor family in Padra, which is personally known by me, just offers misri and completes the whole kram of serving thakurji in 15-20 mins. they also say we do seva. They purchases vastras, etc for their shrithakurji.

    My question is that Does ShriMahaprabhuji showed us the seva prakaar as this way???/ Shrimahaprabhuji used to give orders to any of the Vaishnava who came to shrimahaprabhuji and became sevak, ShriMahaprabhuji gave aagyna that This Thakurji is my sarvasva and do seva with saavdhaanta-keeping eyes open, properly. Do samarpan first to shrithakurji and then use for own.

    Now someone can counter-question to me that when there is rule-there is exemption. Yes, but here exemption cannot help us the, because neither we follow orders of ShriMahaprabhuji, or nor of our own ShriGurucharan, then how the exemption-apvaad will work????? Shrimahaprabhuji gave aagyna that Seva Krutir Guror Aagyna .... Bandhanam vaa Hariicchaya.... To do seva according to the orders of our ShriGuruchran, but if ShriPrabhu's wish differs from ShriGUrucharan's orders, then u can follow ShriPrabhu's wish. That means a rule is to follow orders of ShriGuruchran, but also shown that exemption can be taken if shriprabhu's wish is different.

   If the Markets of ShriNathdwara is crowded, then we should justify ourselves that how much market-sales. During diwali the most old bazaar of baroda was to much crowded, but when the actual sales in market comes we find that only 10 percent of the actual crowd purchased anything. So by seeing the croud we cannot justify the eagerness.

quote:
Jai Shree Krishna,

 

Shri Shreekantji as you have mentioned about great surge in Number of Havelis, that might be true but that does not imply that Vaishnavs are not  opting for Gurha Seva. I always see more n more people buying Sringar samagari and also were ever there is a Haveli you will always spot a Shop with Seva samagri . Even at Nathdwara streets are full of such shops and they are crowded too. And i hope they are purchasing for there Nij Swarups. And over all population rise and different residential locations coming up also contrubutes to rise in no. of havelis.

And to some extend your veiw point is also true.

Niren


 

Edited by - gopal on 22 November 2006 10:55:49


Reply author: shreekant22
Date: 22 November 2006 12:18:01
Message:

Jai Shree Krishna

Niren bhai,

If one has gruha seva, and performes the seva daily, celebrates utsavs with shree Thakorji, offeres manoraths to our own nijswaroopa, then were is time to go to havelis at all.

And how do Havelis come up ?

It us vaishnavs who generate them through donations, fund raisers etc. etc. We voluntarily request Shree Vallabhkul to open a new haveli situated at a convenient location, for easy access etc. On the contrary, how many of us go and request the Vallabhkul to bless us with seva ?

Let us accept and realise the fact that it is a startling reality that we as Vaishnavs have clearly deviated from the path of Gruha seva and have resorted to a more convenient alternative of visiting havelis, having darshan, and reverting back to our day to day lifestyle. 


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