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gopal
Pushtikul Elite Member - August 2003


1221 Posts
Posted - 28 April 2006 :  10:36:55

Jai Jai ShriGokulesh,

     Hitenbhai, ur question is really a discussable question, that Shrimahparabhuji had taken pratitya that i will discuss the word to word, things, which shrithakurji said to me regarding giving thejeevs the diksha, but still not given the Samarpan mantra, So why shrimahaprabhuji had not given the Brahmasambandh Mantra??           

      I will give a hint, that if any of vaishnavas has the Tika of ShriPurushottam charan on Siddhant Rahashya granth the 2nd sloka, Brahmasambandh karnaat sarveshaam.............................  and also the 1st sloka Shravan Shyamale pakshe .......................

     \ShriPurushottamcharan has beautifully explained it. Can we discuss further, ????



Jai Jai ShriGokulesh Parivaar, Baroda

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hit
Entry Level Member


27 Posts
Posted - 28 April 2006 :  11:54:58
Jsk,
Sure, pl. discuss further. kai aur question hai jaise bhahmasambandh kaun de sake, Damalajine kyo kahyo ki Maharaj, sunyo par samjyo nahi, bhrahmsambandhke bad apna kartavya kya hai...etc. Kya bhrahmsambandhse sab dosh door ho jate hai? Gadhya mantra bina aparas kyo nahi bol sake? Mantra aprakat kyo hai ?

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unnati
Senior Member


224 Posts
Posted - 28 April 2006 :  12:56:37

Jai  jai shri gokulesh

I have tried to translate Bawashri's posting in English. So that everyone can read it. If at all anyone finds any mistake please feel free to correct me.

1st Page is already in English.

 

Page2

God has used the word ‘daar’ in the given shloka therefore it is Praman (epistemology).

 

 

 Q.  Ok, but the sentence which you considered as Praman in that it is written to leave Daar (wife). Hence to explain this question is not proper.

A.  If u see the 9th canto of king Amrish, in that we will come to know different types of devotees discussed there. 9th canto is ‘Ishanukatha’. During that period king Amrish used to rule the world and just for the sake of his country he was not able to renunciate. But in him the sacrifice of his wife is shown. Though he was a king but used to serve the lord as a servant. This shows that he had knowledge of devotional duty (bhagwat dharma). King Amrish had a firm faith that god takes care of his devotees. Then why he will not dedicate his wife? He will definitely do.

Q. Ok you accept that King Amrish was a devotee and was aware of the devotional duty. Thus he used devotion as a means regularly. In the Mahadvimrugya bhakti (topmost type of devotion) it is said that (11/11/48 – 11/12/8) through devotion one can get the divine form as a fruit. Therefore, do you accept king Amrish was also belonging to same category i.e. topmost type of devotion?

 

A. No, coz 1st of all king Amrish was a Maryada pusti devotee. He does not have place only in pusti or pustimaryada. From 9th canto as he was not having a right for topmost devotion, so in his story might be the word of Brahma sambandha Samarpan is not described. But he does not get any sin as the whole canto is based on maryada bhakti.

2nd, thing what you are describing about the place of satsang i.e. the fruits received from devotion is said here. But in the same place further ‘keval hi bhaven’ sentence is included. This sentence has a deep meaning rather then other sentences.

 

Page3

In this sentence where only on the basis of utkat bhavna (the most loving person without which you cannot stay or constantly thinking of beloved person) Vrajswamniji’s, cow, animals-birds, and snake etc without any knowledge has also received the god. Also looking at this sentence we will find that while describing about the Vrajswamniji’s etc, King Amrish devotee from 9th canto who is the main personality is not described here coz if he was a Pushtibhakta then here his name would have been described.

 

 

3rd, in this main sentence for describing the fruit ‘EYU’ is used. God say that ’eyu’ means, those soul who gets me and in other sentences as a fruit he came closer i.e. to say to get the god or to come closer to the god makes a vast difference.

 4th, before the birth of lord Krishna path of devotion was not there. Therefore, whatever is said in Samarpan is not translation of any other place (acharya), but as per the kalpasutra of karma, similarly dedication system was decided. As karma means any Vidhi (Do’s as per Veda) for which kalpasutra are the basis. Similarly Samarpan gadh is decider of aatmanivedan. So not to have any question related to anyone.

 

Q. Ok, one thing you have to consider that more than your Samarpan gadh (As said in bhagwat Samarpan stada chatushtaya) sentences of places and its description is given, i.e. all details of places is there, if so it was like that then in Samarpan gadh only the interested men’s were been given. Therefore from your Samarpan gadh only men’s have a right for it and not ladies?

 

A. your question is not right just try to understand what he says to do.

 

Page4

According to all the places described in the scripture those who are indriyavan is eligible for that is said. What about the ladies there, but those who are indriyavan and have all the balance of 9 fold devotion then can get right of topmost devotion and through aatmanivedan her right exists.

 

 

2nd thing, in 7th canto Bhakta Prahlad and other kid’s conversation is described in which Prahlad says (7/7/16)

Shri Narada explains Kayadhuni the meaning of 9 fold devotion. From this you can know that she was a female but she is related to Daityas and still the intellectual like Narada gave the Upadesh. Shri Narada knew that Kayadhuni was eligible so explained her.

3rd Shri Bhagwan and Shri Uddhav’s conversation, at the end god orders (11/29/39)

From this stanza Sudra and females having devotion as previously said topmost devotion can deserve it as a right.

(11/12/4)On the basis of place, from doing satsang whatever the fruit is received females are also part of getting those fruits.

Q. That is true from this females are capable of getting aatmanivedan, but in your Samarpan gadh only the female who are detached or young girls at the time of Nivedan husband is not there, so female - vitragi - young girls will be included in the Samarpan gadh and they will have to ‘Adhyahar’ for husband If not done this way then they will not be dedicated and will get sin. Therefore this female - vitragi - young girl is not included in Samarpan gadh mantra.

 

A. In Mimansa shastra on the basis of Shrushti Nyaya – Bhumi Nibandhan, the pada Daar  the meaning is Pati (husband) is of no special importance and by the pada Sut, gives mother-father also wife,  so by the word daar, it clearly indicates that if husband has done Nivedan then this implies to his family full with father-mother, children’s, wife, Mother and Father are dedicated and through this nothing is left as undedicated. 5 types of sins are not applicable therefore no need to include in the Samarpan gadh mantra.

 

Page5

Come on, for this question let us understand the Mimansa Shasta’s - Shrushti Nyaya.

 

 

 Q. Ok, but in Vyakran (Grammar) shastra if we see clearly instead of ‘dehaindriyahaprana - aatmasamarpyaimi’ it is said ‘dehaindriyahaprana – paranyatmana saha samarpyami’. What is the aim to say this/ is there any Praman (epistemology) present in it?

A. Yes, sentence have 2 main parts ‘Udesha’ and ‘Viday’. For e.g. Black Horse. Here Black is Udesha and Horse is Vidhan. Similarly in Samarpan gadh aatma is Udesha and deh, indriya, pran etc is Vidhan. In Samarpan Gadh, Aatmanivedan is related to all i.e. mother, father, husband, son etc (sahakar/saath). Therefore by saying body soul is been described in many ways.

Body etc is always in relating to the ‘I’ness. There duty, ‘I’ness and ‘My’ness is always related to the topic of adhyas and wife etc is related to ‘My’ness.

Aatmana Saha , here the by the word Saha, just in the laukik, if someone invites a father for a function then along with father, the son will go, so here the prime importance is given to Father, and not the son. Similarly it is been described in the Samarpan Gadhya the Aatmanivedan. This we can understand very clearly from Shrimad Bhagwat's 11th skandha's 19th Adhyaya from the Mahadvimrugya Bhakti.

 

Unnati Kadakia

Edited by - unnati on 28 April 2006 16:12:48 Edited by - unnati on 28 April 2006 17:35:11

Shri Vallabha Charan Vina Sharan Koni Jaou.....Shri Vitthala Nam Vina Mantra Kya Thi Paou......Shri Vallabha Charan Vina Sharan Koni Jaou.....

Unnati Kadakia

 

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unnati
Senior Member


224 Posts
Posted - 28 April 2006 :  16:29:48

Jai jai shri gokulesh

Hitenji, Brahmasambandh is given by the Vallabhkul Balak only. 

Yes all 5 types of dosh which are described in Veda are removed i.e. sahaj, desh, kaal, sanyog and sparsh after initiation(Brahmasambandh).

After taking brahmasambandh we should do seva of thakoreji. We should not eat anything without offering to thakoreji. One should not eat anything which is not offered to thakoreji. Once the things are dedicated to thakoreji should not be taken back but bhog can be taken as prashadi.

Please feel free to correct me if i m somewhere wrong.

Unnati Kadakia



Shri Vallabha Charan Vina Sharan Koni Jaou.....Shri Vitthala Nam Vina Mantra Kya Thi Paou......Shri Vallabha Charan Vina Sharan Koni Jaou.....

Unnati Kadakia

 

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unnati
Senior Member


224 Posts
Posted - 28 April 2006 :  17:46:49

Jai jai shri gokulesh

Who can give the Brahmasambandh? Related link is given below.

http://www.krishnaseva.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=174

Unnati Kadakia



Shri Vallabha Charan Vina Sharan Koni Jaou.....Shri Vitthala Nam Vina Mantra Kya Thi Paou......Shri Vallabha Charan Vina Sharan Koni Jaou.....

Unnati Kadakia

 

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jigershah
Senior Member


215 Posts
Posted - 28 April 2006 :  17:51:35

jsk

dear unnati  nice translation  a really good attempt to help vaishnavs in english

jsk



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hit
Entry Level Member


27 Posts
Posted - 30 April 2006 :  21:55:13
Jsk,
Thanks Unnati. Muje abhi tak Sidhhant Rahasyaka answer nahi mila. Waiting for further discusion.

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gopal
Pushtikul Elite Member - August 2003


1221 Posts
Posted - 03 May 2006 :  14:49:07

Jai Jai ShriGokulesh

               A beautiful question raised by Hitenbhai , so let us discuss such, from the Tika of ShriPurushottamCharan on the Siddhant Rahashya Granth. The question raised by Hitenbhai is very prominent, that why shrimahaprabhuji broke the promise by not giving the brahmasambandh mantra in the granth, if aapshri promised that i will say the word to word what shrithakurji said to me.??????????

       Nanu, yadi tadanintanvakyakathansyeiveyam pratigya, tada samarpangadhyamapi kuto noktumiti chet .. Uchyate ..... Tadvi Panchaaksharmantravivranktvadatigopyam, ato noktam ... Shastre hyatigopya mantraday udiyant eva, na tu prakahataya kathyante .. yatha "Sparshu yat shodashmekvinshami " ityadi .. Tanmantravivarkatvam ceitsaiyva gyeyam .. Tatra hi mantrasthottampushuhantkriyapadsuchitasya kartu swaroopam, tasya bhagwadviseshikrushnapaden cha bhagvadviyuktvadibodhanat mantrasthashasthayuktbhagvatswamitvatsambadhshalitvam cha vivrutam bodhitamiti tatheti tadnukti ...



Jai Jai ShriGokulesh Parivaar, Baroda

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gopal
Pushtikul Elite Member - August 2003


1221 Posts
Posted - 03 May 2006 :  14:52:57

Jai Jai ShriGokulesh,

     "Here the doubt arises that if shrimahaprabhuji had taken the pledge that i will say the word to word which shrithakurji had said, then why the samarpan gadhyamantra is not given?? For this doubt, ShriPurushottamcharan says that this SamarpanGadhyamantra comes in the Counteract of "Panchaksharmantra, So it is Ati Gopniya ( not to be published), so it is not been given. In shastras it is said that the Mantras which are ati Gopniya, they r just declared by the abrevations and not the fully mantra.



Jai Jai ShriGokulesh Parivaar, Baroda

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gopal
Pushtikul Elite Member - August 2003


1221 Posts
Posted - 03 May 2006 :  14:59:40

Jai Jai ShriGokulesh,

             Kincha, Samarpan navadhabhaktatvamanivedanatvan prasidhamiti na tatra kopi sandeh ityatopi tatha ..Tasya doshnivartavavam tu shashskandhe "YATHA KRUSHNARPITAPRANSTATVAPURUSHNISHEVYE" tyenen bhagvadiysangaduktam .. Kincha "DUSAHAPRESTHAVIRHATIVRATAPDUTASUBA" ityartatra sarvasubhanivarkatven sidhasya dusahabhagvadirahataapasya tadanimbhavat sevangikarsampadika doshnivruttihi kathan syaditi shankanivrutyartha hi brahmasambandhkaranpaden tatpurvoktam sarvamanudhya tata sarvadosh nivruttirtatrabhidistsita .. Ekadashovinshyodhyaya bhagvatatmanivedansya bhaktimargadharmadhikaratvabodhanen etasyaivarthasya suchnat .. Ato yadurupyadruaham tadev vyatpadhyam, natu nisandigdham subodhaman va .. Atopi tadanuktiriti janihi ....



Jai Jai ShriGokulesh Parivaar, Baroda

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